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All gas no brakes


lroy
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Posted (edited)

I'm a disaster. My first uspsa match was March 2020. I put a dot on my limited gun to shoot open. I'm in C class.

 

My goal is to win the state match in a few months.

 

This will be focused on learning to control myself. 

 

My practice is 100% dryfire currently. 

 

 

https://practiscore.com/results/new/b3b0812c-5ea9-4317-b756-d83942ede56e?q_individual=mmShooter_3550778

 

The issue is that I am dumb. Before every stage I told mysef to ignore the time and get the points. If I can fix my body not listening to my brain, I can win.

 

I never consciously think go fast. I think I might need to force myself to go slow just to know what that feels like and what they results are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by lroy
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I don't get it. What's the question?

 

You'll get responses and they will vary, might even go off the rails and the topic changes course (battle of the big brains 🤣). Many will say, "Pay for Training". Sure, do it, if you have the $$$, time and ammo.

 

You look like you are doing fine. Some things to clean up, but you have good speed, good posture, fast draw etc... You should be a B soon, possible A by Sept. Just keep at it, there are so many little things to gain and really hard to learn all at once. Get with an M or GM and ask questions. We have people that shoot our Matches and film themselves. They'll post their full Matches on UTube. Gives a good idea how they plan their Stages and footwork. Keep at it, you are doing fine. 🤙

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You're being spastic because you're behind what's happening. You look like you're unable to translate what you think you want to do in the walk through into subconscious action when the beep happens. You are reacting to everything, and it looks like eeevvvverrrything, rather than acting.

 

Self awareness, time, attention. You can do what you need to do without losing any of your natural speed. A majority of what you need to improve is between your ears. In my opinion, from one match's video.

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3 hours ago, UpYoursPal said:

Oh hey, I recognize you from PSTG.  Welcome!  

Hey bud.

 

3 hours ago, Lastcat said:

I don't get it. What's the question?

 

You'll get responses and they will vary, might even go off the rails and the topic changes course (battle of the big brains 🤣). Many will say, "Pay for Training". Sure, do it, if you have the $$$, time and ammo.

 

You look like you are doing fine. Some things to clean up, but you have good speed, good posture, fast draw etc... You should be a B soon, possible A by Sept. Just keep at it, there are so many little things to gain and really hard to learn all at once. Get with an M or GM and ask questions. We have people that shoot our Matches and film themselves. They'll post their full Matches on UTube. Gives a good idea how they plan their Stages and footwork. Keep at it, you are doing fine. 🤙

 

Hope so. Didn't have any specific question, just open to feedback.

 

3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

You're being spastic because you're behind what's happening. You look like you're unable to translate what you think you want to do in the walk through into subconscious action when the beep happens. You are reacting to everything, and it looks like eeevvvverrrything, rather than acting.

 

Self awareness, time, attention. You can do what you need to do without losing any of your natural speed. A majority of what you need to improve is between your ears. In my opinion, from one match's video.

 

Yeah this is a problem. When I run a stage I'm thinking of every step as it happens, but it all feels kind of frantic. I'm guessing your mind should be fairly calm?

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, lroy said:

I'm guessing your mind should be fairly calm?

Do you have any experience with controlling/driving/piloting a vehicle at speed?

 

As I was taught to understand it, you shouldn't really be thinking at all. Just aware and in the moment. A subconscious performance being your very best. If your internal dialogue is "OH crap, here. Now run of there. Aim at that! Hurry. Run Run. Am I in the right spot? Dang, make up shot! Reload. Run. Where is the port? Where is the steel? Dang, lost the dot. Go go go", then I would say you are in a sub optimal state.

Edited by rowdyb
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51 minutes ago, lroy said:

 

 

 

Yeah this is a problem. When I run a stage I'm thinking of every step as it happens, but it all feels kind of frantic. I'm guessing your mind should be fairly calm?

How often do you visualize stages before shooting?  You really shouldn’t be thinking about anything while shooting a stage, it should be pretty much automatic 

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12 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Do you have any experience with controlling/driving/piloting a vehicle at speed?

 

As I was taught to understand it, you shouldn't really be thinking at all. Just aware and in the moment. A subconscious performance being your very best. If your internal dialogue is "OH crap, here. Now run of there. Aim at that! Hurry. Run Run. Am I in the right spot? Dang, make up shot! Reload. Run. Where is the port? Where is the steel? Dang, lost the dot. Go go go", then I would say you are in a sub optimal state.

 

I swapped my car for a motorcycle for 5~ years. It was a lot of picking a line to work a corner, being deliberate then just looking where you wanted to go.

 

I've also had those OH CRAP, lean more moments and almost fell off a mountain low siding. I am seeing the parallels now that you mention it. Lol

 

11 hours ago, UpYoursPal said:

How often do you visualize stages before shooting?  You really shouldn’t be thinking about anything while shooting a stage, it should be pretty much automatic 

 

I try to visualize a lot. Until I can turn my back to the stage and see it in first person.

 

The best stages for me are when I'm shooting and it feels like I'm just watching while morgan freeman (what my inner voice sounds like) narrates it.

 

Maybe I'm doing it completely wrong. I program cues during the walkthrough and literally just go down every one as I'm shooting, but If I can relax myself enough to calmly go down that list, I finish at the top end of M/Gs.

 

Really my biggest struggle is discipline to not get absorbed by the moment. Make a plan, do the plan, collect points, win. I've only had it happen once or twice so far. When it does happen, it feels kind of boring ironically, like I'm just doing a list of things in order.

 

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I'm not really sure how the classification stuff works. It looks like I got bumped to B.

 

I think I shot 88% on this last one, but I don't see it anywhere.

 

Shooting a bunch of them while in a soft cast maybe wasn't ideal but I wanted to make lemonade and gain confidence sho.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

One of they sayings, true or not, about the development of a competitor is "It is easier to make a naturally fast person accurate than an accurate shooter fast." Something maybe to keep in mind as you get more reps in. And that's something simply most people must do at the beginning, is get a lot of reps in. Most of us have to do a majority of our learning from experience and self analysis. Occasionally we take a class or read a book and get a much better sense of what is ideal for a concept or technique but then you get home and have to do the work on your own to make it a permanent part of your skill set.

 

Regarding vehicles at speed, when you are mentally and visually ahead of the bike/car/boat/plane you are able to perform to a higher level. When you are at the front wheel or the hood, literally with your attention and focus you are constantly reacting to stimuli that seems to be coming at an uncomfortable pace. The first video makes it look like you're "at the front wheel" instead of down the trail as much as possible.

 

So what was the question again we were supposed to help answer? hahahaha

Edited by rowdyb
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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

I'm confused on the path I should take training.

 

I made A class and have won a few matches. Got hoa on one which was neat.

 

If I shoot comfortably and confirm everything, I do well, but it's doesn't feel like I'm pushing myself. I'll win locally, but that's going to stop at some point at bigger matches.

 

If I push speed, I'm very inconsistent with penalties all over, but when it does click every now and then the result is far better..

 

I don't know if training wise, I should be constantly on the gas and accept that I'll be missing a lot until I can adapt or do I maintain a comfortable pace and see how far that gets me?

 

 

Edited by lroy
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Don't slow down. Aim a little more. Focus on shot calling and visual patience while still moving fast and shooting fast. 

The guy that won that match was 4 seconds slower than you and was shooting Minor, but he didn't have your 4 mikes and he shot twice as many alphas as charlies , but you shot more charlies than alphas. Look at results from majors with guys like Christian Sailer, JJ, etc. They are accurate as hell, and still fast. That's how they are winning. 

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This is the game.  What can you get away with at you current skill set.  Get accurate at you current speed.  Then you have to speed up till things break.  Obviously when you speed up past your comfort level you accuracy is going to suffer.  Are you going to gain anything by slowing down?  In my last three matches I am seeing my dot well, I have few penalties, and my Alpha to Charlie count is for the most part acceptable.  You know what that means?  Time to speed up.  My hits will suffer because I will be out of my comfort zone.  I understand that if I do not "see" things at faster speeds how will I ever know what to look for?  Some have an issue getting over their own ego to allow this process to happen because they want their hits.  How are they ever going to learn how to shoot at speed?

 

For me the key is understanding knowing why the mistake happened after the stage is complete.  I review the stage as I walk it when the RO is scoring the stage.  I can usually immediately know what I did wrong for the Mike, NS, Charlies near the Delta Line and Deltas. For instance if my groups are huge on targets, what did I see?  I first think, did I see my dot?  Did I call my shots?  If the answers are yes to this then I move to what was my grip like?  Etc., etc., etc.

 

I make mental notes, which has actually become written notes now of the errors I made and what caused the error.  I think most struggle understanding what was going on when they made their errors as they happen so they do not know what to train to prevent the error in the future.  

 

Someone on this forum went from "C" class to "GM" over a summer.  His philosophy in nut shell was go fast till it breaks.  He did mention, if you cannot identify what you are doing wrong during a course of fire to learn from the mistakes, then you are going too fast.  It is a balance for sure.  I also like how he used locals for training purposes.  He did not care where he finished in locals really.  At least that is what he seem to intimate.  He would then slow down to a level for his current skill set at majors.  

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12 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Someone on this forum went from "C" class to "GM" over a summer.  His philosophy in nut shell was go fast till it breaks.  He did mention, if you cannot identify what you are doing wrong during a course of fire to learn from the mistakes, then you are going too fast.  It is a balance for sure.  I also like how he used locals for training purposes.  He did not care where he finished in locals really.  At least that is what he seem to intimate.  He would then slow down to a level for his current skill set at majors.  

 

Can confirm that he never cared how he would finish at a local. He was always looking for that fast path. Also, he used majors the same way. He tested theories at majors to see outcomes and understand technique. He didn't care about the placement. He was much more interested in what he could learn at that level. He only ever "found control" for USPSA Nationals and he placed 23rd at his very first nationals. 

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Posted (edited)

Decided to push speed until the wheels fell off for the next match and they definitely did.

 

Found myself transitioning before I broke the second shot which obviously caused problems. 

 

On the smaller stages I knew speed would be even more of a priority. I tensed up too much causing trigger freeze.

 

Solutions for this would be to keep my vision locked until the trigger breaks and rewire my brain to recognize that speed = relax.

 

https://youtu.be/v7NKqlzsddQ

 

 

It's a bit of a mindfuk to go from winning these to 11th.

 

I've read Tony's log and it seemed he was accurate from the start, where I am very much the opposite. Im not convinced this is the way to go, but it is interesting.

 

Edited by lroy
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20 hours ago, lroy said:

Decided to push speed until the wheels fell off for the next match and they definitely did.

 

Found myself transitioning before I broke the second shot which obviously caused problems. 

 

On the smaller stages I knew speed would be even more of a priority. I tensed up too much causing trigger freeze.

 

Solutions for this would be to keep my vision locked until the trigger breaks and rewire my brain to recognize that speed = relax.

 

https://youtu.be/v7NKqlzsddQ

 

 

It's a bit of a mindfuk to go from winning these to 11th.

 

I've read Tony's log and it seemed he was accurate from the start, where I am very much the opposite. Im not convinced this is the way to go, but it is interesting.

I'm gonna address the points top to bottom.

 

Okay, you went fast but could you OBSERVE the mistakes? If you had time to practice that section of the stage again at the same speed could you fix the mistake? If yes, you are doing it right. If not, focus more on seeing what is happening. Don't slow down just "see faster". With experience this will get easier.

 

That is a common issue (early transitions) and the fact you know that is what you were doing is great news! That means you are aware of what is happening at speed. Now you can work to fix the issue.

 

Speed = Relaxed is right. It's something that is simple but not easy to do. I just recently wrote about that in my range diary. Your trigger freeze is 100% tension.

 

Regarding the result: You have to decide what the priority is. Win the local or get better for a Major match? If it's win the local then slow down a bit and keep doing what you have been doing. If it's a major then sacrifice the local match to get good learning for yourself to improve.

 

I shot/trained a ton with Tony once he moved to TX. He was not always accurate at speed. He was certainly accurate standing still. His basic marksmanship was there. If you can't group smaller than a headbox at 25 yards (while static and under no time pressure) you may need to work on that. Otherwise Tony shot plenty of Ds, Ms, and NSs and had plenty of misses on steel too during practice AND the matches he shot. If you follow that path, you will too. The object is to learn from it.

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Posted (edited)

You make valid points. The only goal is to improve as quickly as I can.

 

At the next match, I'll push Visual speed. I think to get the most data out of this, I need to prioritize vision. Theoritcally, I should be able to call every shot even at maximum speed.

 

Thanks bud

Edited by lroy
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  • 3 weeks later...

 

This one was strange. I was helping build and run the match so I didn't have time to think about anything.

 

I got a lot of trigger freeze which f*#ked me a few times. I saw the misses but was already out of position.

 

Overall this was surprising. I was pretty sure I bombed out with all the Mikes.

 

I sure as f*#k didn't think I could outrun 6 of them. The runs didn't feel out of control for once so I think pushing visual speed in dryfire is working.

 

Obviously 6 mikes is f*#king terrible regardless, but I saw when they happened so at least Im begining to see the kids in the road before I run them over.

 

https://youtu.be/MMCl6rU0OKU

 

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On 7/22/2021 at 4:38 AM, lroy said:

You make valid points. The only goal is to improve as quickly as I can.

 

At the next match, I'll push Visual speed. I think to get the most data out of this, I need to prioritize vision. Theoritcally, I should be able to call every shot even at maximum speed.

 

Thanks bud

16 hours ago, lroy said:

This one was strange.
The runs didn't feel out of control for once so I think pushing visual speed in dryfire is working.

 

I'm not sure you were actually pushing visual speed on this one, but rather overall movement speed. You'll see on a number of targets you moved your head before you comfortably finish shooting those targets. Opinion - pushing visual speed means that you see all the targets and visual cues/notes you made for your stage plan for the amount of time you need. Pushing past your current visual pace should be done in dry and live fire with notes as to what you do at the right amount of stress, low stress, and purposeful high stress and noting where you were looking for each run.

 

If you're still continuing to use these locals as experiment matches that's cool, but you need to actively observe things that are happening at moments of failure, AND you need to figure out when it's time to bring it back and actually execute everything to plan for your best possible score. Throwing out hopers every stage is going to stunt your growth rather than having place markers of what your current capabilities are. Make sure to note your issues either in your phone or write it down to make it more tangible to come back to. If you notice repetition of issues that should be a clue as to what you actually should be working on.

 

Something that will also help us make better assessments of you is to also link your scores for each match. Your hits and times will tell a lot about how other people scored better than you.

 

Like here: shot 1 - turn head - BANG shot 2 into what I assume was the berm
image.thumb.png.ef7b142d3909073e87572d1ac35a501f.png

 

 

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Posted (edited)

https://practiscore.com/results/new/bd5d4899-f800-4fdd-9e2c-34e8a0c68ef2

 

Yeah was getting a ton of trigger freeze. On that particular instance I didn't realize until I was moving on. 

 

I have an indepth journal I keep for myself. I figure no one wants to read that about a random dude, but maybe I'll post more here.


You're right though. At some point I will have to learn what doing things at a solid match pace with no errors feels like.

 

Long term I want to beat everyone. The GA state match has some monsters, though so It will be tough.

Edited by lroy
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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

8.23.21

 

Plan : relax and shoot comfortablly.

 

Result : 3/24

 

https://practiscore.com/results/new/87cbcb12-cabd-4714-bb78-0f6de875ef42

 

This went pretty badly, but I'll try to analyze instead of just s#!tting on myself.

I didn't have time to walk the stages. Visualizing without doing so and nit being aware of exact positions leads to poor results.

 

The misses were a result of attempting hard splits at 10y while moving. It works sometimes, but not reliably quite yet. Reloads suffered from getting razzled by errors, I think.

 

Classifier, I called the shot badly and thought I heard the steel for some reason.

 

The state match is a month away. I think it's best if my focus shifts to working on discipline and minimizing errors until then.

 

My skills are going to be what they are, but I'd like to build confidence.

 

https://youtu.be/cjH_wfgMWfg

Edited by lroy
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Posted (edited)

figured i'd post some things from my personal log so this doesnt seem so random.

  

8.23.21

https://practiscore.com/results/new/f903cc7d-7f9a-4e36-ab4a-f51abf3e4887

Plan : come up with stage plan. visualize clearly. shoot clean and minimize errors.

Result : 1/89

the state match is at this range next month, so I wanted this to treat this in the manner I hope to shoot that.

focus this match was just seeing specific spots on targets. I never thought go slow, I just focused on aiming correctly.

while running the stages, things felt pretty controlled (for the most part). it didn't particularly feel fast or exciting, it was just doing the things i visualized.

that said, i did goof a few times. i have trouble finding ports when the walls are see through. coming hard into a spot then looking up at the target, I overran the port and ended up having to double back. I'm not really sure how to fix this.

the state match is next month, at this range with these walls (i think), so i'm going to have to figure it out though.

the activators were another issue. I don't have a ton of experience with them, but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be waiting for them to appear. the max trap had 4 scoring hits, so I wanted to be sure for that one, but the second one was still visible at rest so I should have hit the activator then left the dropped target for last.

other than that, things went pretty well. it's kind of strange how unremarkable it felt at the time and looks on video, but the speed and hits were there so that's something to note for myself.

if it feels like i'm just confidently executing the plan I visualized, it's a good stage. 

 

 

Edited by lroy
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12 hours ago, lroy said:

i have trouble finding ports when the walls are see through. coming hard into a spot then looking up at the target, I overran the port and ended up having to double back. I'm not really sure how to fix this.

The cool thing is that your starting to see where an the target you want to hit, that's great. Ports - in your walk through think about where you want to be to get all the targets needed. On a second walthrough figure out what you should see visually before you start slowing down and how the "full picture" through the port should look such as what position you need to be and when to start turning to engage the target. For tight ports or farther targets, I have the thought of "control".

 

12 hours ago, lroy said:

the activators were another issue. I don't have a ton of experience with them, but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be waiting for them to appear.

Popper activated targets - there's about a good 1.0-1.5 seconds, depending on what popper is used, after impact  that you have before the target starts moving. Think about when the RO activates the target what you can fill the space with. It's all based on your confidence and experience with target transitions and basically a "par timed" target.

 

Keep visualizing how you want things to go and what your key points will be. Also think about where you should be predicting your shots, and when you should react for better points.

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