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Best PCC style magazine


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2 hours ago, Texaspaul said:

So thinking of building a new PCC and was thinking about if there is a better/best mag style for PCC and Steel Challenge?


There's really no debate on this. Glock mags are the standard. Everything else is in the shadow of Glock's reputation for reliability there. 

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My JP takes Glock mags.  I am not a fan of Glock and have bias against plastic magazines (and guns for that matter), even ones with steel liners like the OEM mags have.  It seems like they should not be durable.  Again, this is just my own personal bias.  

So I would absolutely recommend setting your PCC up for Glock mags despite my own feelings.  My reasons - Better aftermarket options for extensions, accessories, etc.  Unbelievably reliable - none better.  Reasonably priced.  If you leave your mags at home, someone at a match will always have one to borrow (don't ask).  And last but not least - MBX now makes steel Glock mags!  I haven't tried one yet - and they are pricey but might be worth it.  Might want to upgrade your mag release to a steel one if yours i aluminum like mine.

 

Good luck. 

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20 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:


There's really no debate on this. Glock mags are the standard. Everything else is in the shadow of Glock's reputation for reliability there. 

+1 For reliability, stability, availability, price and aftermarket extension choices, nothing is even close.  Why do you think premier PCC makers like JP use Glock magazines as standard?  

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Glock mags caught on because when PCCs started getting popular (about the time USPSA created the division), guns using them were sold as "you can use your stock of Glock magazines", the assumption being that everyone had a pile of Glock magazines laying around (a lot of people did, but most didn't have the fun sticks, there was no reason for them unless you just liked going out in the desert and blasting away).

 

There were early feeding issues caused by the jump from the magazine to the chamber, which JP fixed with their lower, and Taccom fixed with their feed ramp first, then their Super feed barrels. Nowadays Glock magazine guns are as reliable as any other gun out there, but early on, not so much. And yes, I get it, some had reliable guns with no fiddling around, but Taccom wouldn't have needed to make that little feed ramp insert if feeding wasn't an issue in Glock magazine guns. And while I've never had it happen to me (yet), Glock magazines have a weak lower lip where the extension attaches which will at times break when dropped.

 

I know I had more issues getting my Glock mag gun (ATI New Frontier clone lower) to work reliably until the Taccom products came out than I did getting my Colt mag gun (Spike's Tactical lower) to work. For the Colt mag gun, all that was necessary was tuning the ejector. Use good mags (the Metalform ones with the steel followers, not the orange plastic ones, and definitely not ASC mags, which take a bunch of filing and tapping, as well as changing the follower to a steel unit to get working) and it just works. Colt's been making them work in 9mm AR type carbines and submachine guns since 1982. I'm of the opinion that the only reason this type of gun didn't catch on had nothing to do with functionality, but was due to the fact that nobody who didn't own an old Colt SMG had any magazines. Too bad really, because they feed really smoothly, load into the gun at easily as Glock magazines, and are generally a bit less expensive than Glock brand magazines. 

 

+10 extensions can be found for either Colt or Glock mags, giving you 41 +1.

 

MBX didn't have to come out with steel mags for the Colt mag guns because they already came with steel mags. And they don't cost $150.00 each.

 

I've never owned a Sig MPX, but I've read that their magazines are supposed to be super reliable and well made. Same with CZ Scorpion magazines, though again, I've never owned one. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2021 at 11:48 AM, SteelCityShooter said:

+1 For reliability, stability, availability, price and aftermarket extension choices, nothing is even close.  Why do you think premier PCC makers like JP use Glock magazines as standard?  

Because, at the time.....that's the only thing that was reliable enough.

So I've just built up a PSA ARV......uses the Scorpion style magazines. I am using the PSA brand and with ease you can get extensions to make 50, 60 and even 75 rounds. My company is developing a funnel, mag release and bolt release for the platform. Based off the AKV that we've been shooting......that magazine platform has been super reliable, much more so than the Glock......still a work in progress but I believe that this may well be a very good platform to run with. The PSA magazines are built well. The major hurdle at the moment is having an efficient magazine release. 

At the moment, the Glock mags are still king supreme for the PCC format.

 

FYI.....we sell over 200 glock feed ramps per month to fix feeding issues on Glock lowers.

Edited by TRUBL
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Glock feed ramps are the best $20 you will ever spend for reliability. Have made our 3 PCCs with many rounds 100% as long as my reloads work. Factory ammo is 100%.

 

gerritm

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On 5/10/2021 at 11:51 AM, gerritm said:

Glock feed ramps are the best $20 you will ever spend for reliability. Have made our 3 PCCs with many rounds 100% as long as my reloads work. Factory ammo is 100%.

 

gerritm

I never really understood feed ramps.  My GMR doesn't have them - feeds 100%.  Why are they needed?  Can the geometry be that different from my GMR?  I've seen the barrels with built-in feed ramps also - I don't understand those either.  Can anyone explain why some PCCs need them, some don't?

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11 minutes ago, philmadxx said:

I never really understood feed ramps.  My GMR doesn't have them - feeds 100%.  Why are they needed?  Can the geometry be that different from my GMR?  I've seen the barrels with built-in feed ramps also - I don't understand those either.  Can anyone explain why some PCCs need them, some don't?

It's not about understanding feed ramps. It's about making the lower work. Until Taccom came along with the little ramps and their ramped barrels, the jump from the magazine to the chamber was an issue. The feed ramp and ramped barrels address this issue.

 

JP addressed the issue when they designed and built their lowers. They never needed an aftermarket ramp, at least on the GMR15, I know nothing of the earlier models.

 

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I understand it's about making the lowers work but why not address that issue with the lower instead of adding a feed ramp?  JP isn't the only one getting it right, others don't require them - or at least that's how I understand it.  

 

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1 minute ago, philmadxx said:

I understand it's about making the lowers work but why not address that issue with the lower instead of adding a feed ramp?  JP isn't the only one getting it right, others don't require them - or at least that's how I understand it.  

 

I'm no expert, but I do know there are a few companies making lowers with feed ramps, and that's about it.

 

Angsadt Arms and QC10 also have a good reputation, though I have no experience with them, and can't say how they make their lowers work. 

 

Also you have to remember, it's harder to sell a lower that costs $250.00 when NFA is selling their for $120.00, and the NFA lower works fine with one of the newer ramped barrels. 


I think ramped barrels and the Taccom ramp have come about as the solution, and that seems to be the way most are going. A Taccom Superfeed Barrel made my ATI lower (a New Frontier clone) work as smooth as my Spikes Tactical Colt mag lower. Prior to that, rounds were smashing into the end of the chamber, and mostly bouncing into the chamber, but sometimes suffering bullet setback or other issues. 

 

Of course now JP is making the JP5, which if it ever becomes affordable will probably change PCC rifles forever.

 

 

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12 hours ago, philmadxx said:

I never really understood feed ramps.  My GMR doesn't have them - feeds 100%.  Why are they needed?  Can the geometry be that different from my GMR?  I've seen the barrels with built-in feed ramps also - I don't understand those either.  Can anyone explain why some PCCs need them, some don't?

They correct the geometry & differences in the way the Glock mag sits in the lower. Do you need them, not necessarily but then everyone isn't shooting a $2K JP that is matched and fitted. My 3 home builds cost about $1K each and 2 have JP barrels and other has a Taccom super feed with a built in ramp. 3 different brand lowers, 2 are matched billet, and 1-NFA, & uppers, all quality names. Before the Taccom feed ramps my JP barrels ran 98% with maybe 1 misffeed/double feed out of every couple of hundred rounds. With ramp 100%. Just 1 more inexpensive insurance for reliability.

 

I have recommended them to several shooting buddies and they all swear by them.

 

gerritm

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13 hours ago, philmadxx said:

I understand it's about making the lowers work but why not address that issue with the lower instead of adding a feed ramp?  JP isn't the only one getting it right, others don't require them - or at least that's how I understand it.  

 

Even JP does not have it right......they are closer than anyone else (except TACCOM and Ruger with the PC Carbine).......No one has actually figured out that you need to look at how a glock pistol feeds and duplicate that.

 

Bottom line.....if your magazine is not almost touching the feed ramp like a Glock pistol......it's not right......period. And there are only 2 manufacturers on the planet at this time that do that for the glock mag AR9's

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21 minutes ago, TRUBL said:

Even JP does not have it right......they are closer than anyone else (except TACCOM and Ruger with the PC Carbine).......No one has actually figured out that you need to look at how a glock pistol feeds and duplicate that.

 

Bottom line.....if your magazine is not almost touching the feed ramp like a Glock pistol......it's not right......period. And there are only 2 manufacturers on the planet at this time that do that for the glock mag AR9's

I forgot about the Ruger.

 

It has issues, mostly ejector getting hit by overinserting mags during bolt open reloads, but mine feeds like a fat guy in an all you can eat buffet. 

 

Just wish they'd have put the mag catch in the right place, and made some sort of bolt release. The bolt release isn't a huge deal, but the mag catch location is.

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Funny thing is I started shooting PCC before it was official USPSA division. I went thru many different configurations and barrels and it was always the same problem with feeding issues creating double feeds. Learn not to rack it just drop the mag out, shake the double feed out, reinsert mag and go on. Got pretty good with it.

 

When the Taccom feed ramp first came out I installed it my upper and these all went away. Same with the Taccom barrels with the built in feed ramp. Been running these for many years now with basically zero malfunctions. Reliability is the key with all guns in our sport. Now run 3 PCC's this way and especially my granddaughters need to run perfect.

 

gerritm

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Best PCC magazines......Factory Glock with TF Extensions......MBX w/MBX Extensions.......Presently running the MBX mags with zero issues.My MBX Pro Series PCC has 2 .5 years on it with ZERO malfunctions...oh , non ramped MBX Utlralight Match barrel :) 

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21 hours ago, robertg5322 said:

I forgot about the Ruger.

 

It has issues, mostly ejector getting hit by overinserting mags during bolt open reloads, but mine feeds like a fat guy in an all you can eat buffet. 

 

Just wish they'd have put the mag catch in the right place, and made some sort of bolt release. The bolt release isn't a huge deal, but the mag catch location is.

On the Ruger PCC.......you want the ejector to be as close as possible to the bottom of the bolt, touching is good even, I break the edge on the ejector so it doesn't catch. One thing a lot of people over look when they start to have ejection issues is make sure the machine screws that attach the stock to the receiver are TIGHT and that there is nothing (dirt) between the receiver and the stock. As the ejector is in the stock.....stuff like that has to be looked at.

 

Mag catch is a pain, we took care of that (somewhat) with the huger oversized mag catch and someone came out with a cool finger release recently. Yeah, as for the bolt release.....I took mine out.

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3 hours ago, TRUBL said:

On the Ruger PCC.......you want the ejector to be as close as possible to the bottom of the bolt, touching is good even, I break the edge on the ejector so it doesn't catch. One thing a lot of people over look when they start to have ejection issues is make sure the machine screws that attach the stock to the receiver are TIGHT and that there is nothing (dirt) between the receiver and the stock. As the ejector is in the stock.....stuff like that has to be looked at.

 

Mag catch is a pain, we took care of that (somewhat) with the huger oversized mag catch and someone came out with a cool finger release recently. Yeah, as for the bolt release.....I took mine out.

Haven't had issues with mine, a friend has had issues, mostly due to overinserting mag on an open bolt reload. 

 

I saw a few options that moved the mag catch, Hogue or Magpul (can't remember which) had one reviewed that was supposed to be about $150.00, but I got tired of waiting for it to materialize and once I left California, I finally broke down and bought the Tandemkross stock. Added your carbon fiber handguard, the gun is a bit long, but weighs almost exactly what my two AR9 rifles weigh (6.5 lbs), and is well balanced. Best part is the mag catch is now where it belongs, and the gun has a pistol grip. 

 

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I will say that the ETS 40 round mag actually works 100% - that was after many matches to include Area 6 last year in which I had a gun that ran flawlessly to help with a 2nd place finish.  That being said, get the MBX mags and call it a day.

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On 5/13/2021 at 11:06 AM, TRUBL said:

Even JP does not have it right......they are closer than anyone else (except TACCOM and Ruger with the PC Carbine).......No one has actually figured out that you need to look at how a glock pistol feeds and duplicate that.

 

Bottom line.....if your magazine is not almost touching the feed ramp like a Glock pistol......it's not right......period. And there are only 2 manufacturers on the planet at this time that do that for the glock mag AR9's

 

So...a gun that is 100% reliable still doesn't have it right?  That's funny.  Only Tacom and Ruger can get it right?  Rugers PCC jam almost as much as rimfire carbines.  Not sure about the tacom ramp - don't need one.  

 

  

 

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43 minutes ago, philmadxx said:

 

 

So...a gun that is 100% reliable still doesn't have it right?  That's funny.  Only Tacom and Ruger can get it right?  Rugers PCC jam almost as much as rimfire carbines.  Not sure about the tacom ramp - don't need one.  

 

  

 

FWIW - I ran a Ruger PC flawlessly as a backup gun - I ran it at Area 8 in 2020 and got 2nd place in PCC overall.  The platform is pretty solid - it worked with every type of mag and ammo I threw at it.  The cheap looking plastic 40 round ETS mag was my primary match mag for Area 8.  The steel MBX mags also worked well. 

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I've been running the Colt mags for years and they have been very reliable.  The only downside is they take quite a bit of force to seat on a closed bolt.  Otherwise they have been great for me.

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