mcmmotorsports Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I have loads that I made for my gun that are a little too hot for my liking. While they will be fine, 180pf is a little much. Would a Czechmate be ok running 200 rounds of this? A friend has one and I am sure he would appreciate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK66 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 That's definitely higher than CZ recommends in the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncie21 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 I would not shoot a limited or open gun that could not (or should not) run 180 PF ammo. With that said, I wouldn't hesitate to run 180 PF loads through my STI or CZ CM pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, muncie21 said: I would not shoot a limited or open gun that could not (or should not) run 180 PF ammo. With that said, I wouldn't hesitate to run 180 PF loads through my STI or CZ CM pistols. Yes, my builder says it would be perfectly fine to run in my open gun, just don’t make a habit of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 200 is probably ok but not what I would recommend in a CZ for any serious round count. I tri topped a small frame Tanfoglio in a similar fashion to the CM and the slide is 9.8 oz I would assume a CM is similarly light and kinda close to the edge of strong enough compared to a 2011 slide, remembering that 9major 2011 slides seem to crack on a reasonably regular basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I have run up in 175-180 with my Czechmate with no issues that I can see. Since then i have backed it down a bit due to a powder and load change. I would not hesitate to run those in my own knowing that I have the appropriate recoil spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1207 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) I just looked up Winchester white box 180gr 40S&W and velocity is 1020fps (data from Winchester's own site), which means it's 183.6 PF--which is above the 180 PF discussed in this thread. That would be odd if someone was unsure about shooting factory ammo in their gun, wouldn't it? While 180 PF might be hotter than we like for uspsa, it should be perfectly fine to shoot, right? Edited May 9, 2021 by jt1207 correct spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 hour ago, jt1207 said: I just looked up Winchester white box 180gr 40S&W and velocity is 1020fps (data from Winchester's own site), which means it's 183.6 PF--which is above the 180 PF discussed in this thread. That would be odd if someone was unsure about shooting factory ammo in their gun, wouldn't it? While 180 PF might be hotter than we like for uspsa, it should be perfectly fine to shoot, right? The Czechmate is 9 mm, not 40 Cal Big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1207 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 3 hours ago, mcmmotorsports said: The Czechmate is 9 mm, not 40 Cal Big difference I thought about that. For the difference between 9mm and 40 at 180 PF, does 9mm produce more pressure relative to 40 at a given PF (in this case, 180)? In other words, how is a 180 PF in 9mm (124gr at 1450fps) more potentially harmful to a functioning gun than 180 PF in 40 (180gr at 1000fps) holding other things equal (frame, slide, etc)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 hour ago, jt1207 said: I thought about that. For the difference between 9mm and 40 at 180 PF, does 9mm produce more pressure relative to 40 at a given PF (in this case, 180)? In other words, how is a 180 PF in 9mm (124gr at 1450fps) more potentially harmful to a functioning gun than 180 PF in 40 (180gr at 1000fps) holding other things equal (frame, slide, etc)? I have the same question, because power factor is just another name for momentum and a 9 mm 180 PF load has the same exact momentum as a 180 PF 40 cal load. The slide will recoil with the same velocity in either case in order to satisfy the law of conservation of momentum. However, if (as someone else stated) CZ says that 180 PF is too high, they are telling you that the slide and the parts that the slide interacts with are not meant to take the mechanical impact that a 180 PF load will generate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK66 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 I commented about the manual. Says 165 +/-4. I'm can't say how much is acceptable, just passing on what I read.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 5 hours ago, TK66 said: I commented about the manual. Says 165 +/-4. I'm can't say how much is acceptable, just passing on what I read.. Please don't take my comment as a dig on you. I agree with you if CZ says 180 is too much, then it is too much. No one knows the design margins of the pistol any better than the people who designed and made it. My comment was in reference to the statement someone else made that a 40 S&W 180 PF load was somehow worse on the gun than a 9 mm 180 PF load. They both beat up the gun equally, because the gun (slide and slide stop in particular) has to deal with the same exact amount of momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 7 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said: I have the same question, because power factor is just another name for momentum and a 9 mm 180 PF load has the same exact momentum as a 180 PF 40 cal load. The slide will recoil with the same velocity in either case in order to satisfy the law of conservation of momentum. However, if (as someone else stated) CZ says that 180 PF is too high, they are telling you that the slide and the parts that the slide interacts with are not meant to take the mechanical impact that a 180 PF load will generate. There are a few big differences here: First, powder factor is just a simple momentum formula used for the sport, when I comes to the longevity of gun parts I think kinetic energy is more useful. Since in calculating energy, velocity is squared, a lighter, faster bullets carries dramatically more energy than a slower, heavier bullet, so 9 major at 180pf and 40 at 180pf are very different, energy-wise. Second, slide momentum in a compensated pistol is different than in a non compensated pistol as the comp delays the unlocking of the slide, dissipating energy before it cycles. That being said, there's no hard limit to pf, and the bullet weight makes a difference. 200 rounds isn't that big a deal either way, but I keep my 115 loads under 180 for longevity of parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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