Stock division round 2

[RJH]

6 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

Are you now saying your idea of a truly 'stock gun' division (or special match) would be run with match-provided guns? 

You're drifting...

 

No, I am not saying anything like that. Someone else said that the only way to make the division work would be for a company to provide guns. That idea would work, but I still believe my original idea would work as well. So there was a thread Drift But I didn't drift it LOL. I don't figure many people will want to shoot stock guns either way regardless. Where are now, about 3 or 4 for sures, and a couple of maybes?  This new division is not looking too promising

[Southpaw]

13 minutes ago, RJH said:

Where are now, about 3 or 4 for sures, and a couple of maybes?  This new division is not looking too promising

 

Sounds like it'll be at least as popular as L10 and Revolver

[ima45dv8]

28 minutes ago, RJH said:

So there was a thread Drift But I didn't drift it LOL.

Opening two threads on the same subject because you didn't like or didn't get the responses you hoped for the first time is definite thread drift. Some might call it Trolling. 

 

Enjoy this bees nest you've tried to stir up. There won't be a third.

[RJH]

3 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

Opening two threads on the same subject because you didn't like or didn't get the responses you hoped for the first time is definite thread drift. Some might call it Trolling. 

 

Enjoy this bees nest you've tried to stir up. There won't be a third.

I am not quite sure what you mean. There is no trolling here. I had a thread a while back about a stock division,  people said it was unenforceable,  since then I thought up a way for it to be enforceable so i posted it here. I decided to make a new thread instead of dredging up an older one because there was a definitive difference and I didn't want people to read the first post of the old thread and go with the "unenforceable so no" idea. Just looking for honest opinions and have gotten them, not sure what the problem is.  

[ima45dv8]

I mean that this is your second trip down this path. It's apparent your real intention is to wait for enough responses, chuckle, and say "see, people don't want it or won't comply". You got those same responses from that first thread. 

 

Enjoy the moment.

 

[RJH]

21 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

I mean that this is your second trip down this path. It's apparent your real intention is to wait for enough responses, chuckle, and say "see, people don't want it or won't comply". You got those same responses from that first thread. 

 

Enjoy the moment.

 

Not my intention at all,  if it was i would tell you. I will say this and then leave it alone, you are completely misreading my intentions in this thread and the other one as well. They were both genuine questions/thoughts/ideas. 

 

 

[waktasz]

Absolutely never ever ever

[terrydoc]

On 5/5/2021 at 12:34 PM, RJH said:

 

I am not talking about anything IPSC

I gather that but that's the division that was originally created before USPSA went with their rules that allowed any and everything, if you checked the IPSC rules as written it says do nothing, originally you weren't even allowed to change sights from the factory ones.

[Slalom45]

I just shot my first (locap) nationals. Would like to have shot better, but I learned a ton about the "sport" of USPSA.

 

We can go back a forth about divisions and modification all we want. In my opinion things are good the way they are. If you enjoy tinkering with your gear, the current rules are set up for you. If you have a favorite box stock G17 you like shooting go see how well you can do with it. If you want to work toward being the best shooter you can be in an competitive sport, get any reliable gun with a decent trigger and sights and get to work on yourself. It can be whatever you want it to be...

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, Slalom45 said:

We can go back a forth about divisions and modification all we want. In my opinion things are good the way they are. If you enjoy tinkering with your gear, the current rules are set up for you. If you have a favorite box stock G17 you like shooting go see how well you can do with it. If you want to work toward being the best shooter you can be in an competitive sport, get any reliable gun with a decent trigger and sights and get to work on yourself. It can be whatever you want it to be...

 

That's a very good point.  I think that none of the mods allowed in Production and Carry Optics matter if your fundamentals aren't solid.

 

Conversely, once your fundamentals are solid only very few of the mods allowed make a real difference.

Edited May 13, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[Racinready300ex]

20 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

That's a very good point.  I think that none of the mods allowed in Production and Carry Optics matter if your fundamentals aren't solid.

 

Conversely, once your fundamentals are solid only very few of the mods allowed make a real difference.

 

I think basically the opposite of that. If you have poor trigger control, it's easier to shoot a 2lbs SA shadow trigger then it is to shoot a 5 lbs Glock trigger with out a doubt. Add to that when you apply 3 lbs of force sideways to that 2 lbs trigger on a 55 oz S2 you're going to move it less then if you apply 6lbs sideways to a glock that weights half that.  Similarly someone who takes one sight picture and pulls the trigger twice, I think will get better hits with a heavy S2 and a light trigger then they will with a stock glock. 

 

As you improve you'll be able to really notice the little changes and set the gun up to take full advantage of the rules with out necessarily needing to go to a 59 oz gun with a 2 lbs trigger.

[SGT_Schultz]

28 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think basically the opposite of that. If you have poor trigger control, it's easier to shoot a 2lbs SA shadow trigger then it is to shoot a 5 lbs Glock trigger with out a doubt. Add to that when you apply 3 lbs of force sideways to that 2 lbs trigger on a 55 oz S2 you're going to move it less then if you apply 6lbs sideways to a glock that weights half that.  Similarly someone who takes one sight picture and pulls the trigger twice, I think will get better hits with a heavy S2 and a light trigger then they will with a stock glock. 

 

As you improve you'll be able to really notice the little changes and set the gun up to take full advantage of the rules with out necessarily needing to go to a 59 oz gun with a 2 lbs trigger.

True but trigger control isn't the only fundamental.  Grip is the other big one.  If grip sucks, no gun mods or weight is going to help you.

[Racinready300ex]

14 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

True but trigger control isn't the only fundamental.  Grip is the other big one.  If grip sucks, no gun mods or weight is going to help you.

 

With poor grip the gun moves around to much. A heavier gun moves less then a lighter gun. So again heavy can be better for someone with a poor grip, espeically at the more extreme ends like compare a plastic gun to a steel gun with brass hung all over it. 

 

I watched a video Hwansik did the other day where he messed with a flashlight. Shooting his normal 2 handed grip he could not tell much difference. But shooting one handed he could. Him shooting one handed is probably more like someone with a poor grip shooting normal. (typ WML not one of the lok things)

 

I shot a match the other day that had us do a bill drill on a target. On the draw I missed my grip but went with it. I could feel the gun moving in my hands as I ripped on the trigger. This was IDPA, my time was on par with everyone else, my group was ugly but I only dropped 1 point. I honestly think my 45 oz S2 did most of the work for me on that stage. 

[RJH]

On 5/5/2021 at 5:06 PM, SGT_Schultz said:

That was before my time but it sounds pretty damned cool

 

http://looserounds.com/2018/07/25/george-farr-and-his-famous-71-at-the-1921-national-matches/

 

 

Cmp got back to me. Hopefully the link works, if not googling George Farr probably will 

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

 

http://looserounds.com/2018/07/25/george-farr-and-his-famous-71-at-the-1921-national-matches/

 

 

Cmp got back to me. Hopefully the link works, if not googling George Farr probably will 

 

Thanks.  The story was familiar to me now that you bring it up.