Bakerjd Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 I recently have noticed that if I dont watch everyone else shoot the stage, especially in my division, I do better on the stage. Better really isnt the correct explanation but more like my run flows better, my mind is more clearly focused on the task at hand and my stage plan. I started doing this after shooting a few matches with a good friend and he actually turns his back to the stage when anyone shooting his division shoots. Just wondering if this is normal or I'm just overthinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 One shouldn't have to turn away or close the eyes when someone is shooting the stage, in order to keep one's plan straight. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 It’s weird. Shoot your plan. It may be different it may be the same but not everyone has the same strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 It is a fairly common mistake for new shooters to change their plan when they are on deck, and the outcome is predictable, unless of course they just discovered a target or a popper they missed in the walk thru. While MLB is on the skids, I wonder if they watch each other bat? Bottom line you will do your best when you make a good plan and stick to it. As an example when I shoot single stack if something goes wrong and I end up doing an unplanned reload, I will do another to get back on the plan if I didn't that "mistake" would cascade thru the whole stage. When you watch other shooters you might learn something and it might be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) I 100% watch everybody I can shoot a stage. They may have seen a better way that I missed or attack something differently than I was going to that is much more efficient. But it does have to look good before I change my stage plan Edited May 3, 2021 by RJH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael303 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 I definitely watch everyone I can just because it's good data but for the most part it works best for me to stick to my original plan unless I see someone doing something significantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 The only time I agreed with this rule is when there were still major Revo shooters. Watching a 6 round friendly stage plan was mid numbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakerjd Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 On 5/3/2021 at 4:11 PM, ChuckS said: The only time I agreed with this rule is when there were still major Revo shooters. Watching a 6 round friendly stage plan was mid numbing. That sounds terribly painful to do. Thanks for the input all. I guess I need to tweak my thinking a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 That's something that changes based on your experience level, who you're squadded with, and what type of match it is. A new shooter might benefit from watching the local B/C shooters, shooting the same division, breaking down a stage. A new shooter shooting revolver might not get much out of watching Sailer break down a stage shooting an Open gun. Sometimes newer shooters make simple stuff look harder than it actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ccampo1129 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I feel like you should always watch people run a stage. Helps you pick up on things you may miss in your stage plans. In/outs or shortcuts. Different spots you can take certain targets from, different routes to take etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmtdOne Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 I try to watch shooters that are above my skill level to see why they are better/faster than me. Very rarely will I watch somebody's run and modify my stage plan to run it the way another guy did. The time for that is during the walk through. I especially watch the better shooters during the walk through to see if they are doing something more efficient than I am. If they are, I borrow that part. I have found that switching up before my turn to shoot often ends in frustration when it all comes apart because I didnt spend the time to burn the plan into my memory before the beep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bludog Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Watching helps me decide if my plan is best. You can learn from others mistakes or good ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseM Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 I really like shooting a stage first for this reason. After doing the walk through my plan is formed and I am in the right head space and I do my best. I do watch other shooters and I'm not saying I can't learn from watching other shooters but even when watching someone gives me a nugget that I can actually use often what happens is my brain is now trying to decide what execution is best and that uncertainty in my head can sometimes lead to little hiccups. Even if it is sub optimal compared to other plans I find I shoot my best when I am decisive and very deliberate about my movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ccampo1129 Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Pre match planning is everything. Do not wait until your squad is up to that stage. Show up early, do your breakdowns then! Watch others and learn from them! Learn from their mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakerjd Posted July 21, 2021 Author Share Posted July 21, 2021 On 6/28/2021 at 4:49 PM, Ccampo1129 said: Pre match planning is everything. Do not wait until your squad is up to that stage. Show up early, do your breakdowns then! Watch others and learn from them! Learn from their mistakes. 100% agree. This year I've taken to getting to majors a day early and walking stages/watching that days shooters shoot. It has helped a LOT. I have found recently that since I am usually an RO at locals and we seem to have a bit of new/inexperienced shooters at one of the locals here that I've been doing poorly at that specific match all season. I'm a solid B SS shooter but cant seem to do anything but fail hard at this match every month. This past weekend I was running shooters, then scoring and putting it in the tablet. At one point I had to put my own scores in the tablet..... needles to say match mindset was not even close to being a thing. In fact by the end of the match I was wondering if shooting locals is even worth the time and ammo. I dont really care if I place well at them as I use them to see if what I've practiced is improving but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Bakerjd said: This past weekend I was running shooters, then scoring and putting it in the tablet. At one point I had to put my own scores in the tablet.... The above is unacceptable. You're in control, don't allow it. You also don't have to RO every single time. Edited July 21, 2021 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p7fl Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 When I started in the 90s it wasn't watching the great shooters I was with. My issue was listening. Their rhythm and speed was much faster than I could manage and threw me off my plan and abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacerX1166 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 6:18 AM, p7fl said: When I started in the 90s it wasn't watching the great shooters I was with. My issue was listening. Their rhythm and speed was much faster than I could manage and threw me off my plan and abilities. This! My first major match, many moons ago, was A8 and I wound up being squadded with this gawky kid named JJ, who no one knew at the time. I listened to his cadences and tried to emulate the timing. Needless to say, I failed miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Something that has yet to really be brought up in this thread is, as you progress as a shooter you should understand your personal strengths a weaknesses as a shooter. These strengths and weaknesses are never going to be the same between any 2 shooters. Your strengths and weaknesses should be accounted for as you plan your run through a course of fire. Skills like shooting on the move, shooting partials on the move, shooting steel on the move, etc. Just because someone else can pull something off does not mean other shooters can. This does not always apply but, it is something to keep in mind when watching others shoot a course of fire. I typically stick to my plan, unless as mentioned above I see something that would make a big difference when compared to my original plan. These mostly revolve around reloading positions, and cutting certain parts of the stage in movement that I may have not thought about. Otherwise, I like to watch others shot the stage to see fresh ideas from another mindset that is not mine that might carry over to future stage plans, or possibly analyze if there is a skill set associated with numerous stages I have recently seen that I might be weak at that may need to become a higher priority on the training list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubs3a Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Watching is good for as others mentioned - data. I especially watch newbies shoot stages "just in case". There was an instance when I just started shooting and I wasn't paying attention. All of a sudden I see a few veteran shooters duck and move and sprint. A newbie broke 180 HARD and made a few guys nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 5:14 AM, Bakerjd said: I was wondering if shooting locals is even worth the time and ammo. If you're not having fun, then they aren't. If you're not making money then they aren't. If you're not being tested in a way you can evaluate your practice then they aren't. I used to go to a club I belonged to and while they would be shooting a match I would be in a practice bay for an hour or two and then leave. They called me all sorts of names behind my back. 4 years on they are still all B class shooters and I've had some of my best nationals finishes. Don't let yourself be a martyr for others. It is amazing to help and the match loves you for it and everyone needs to help. But over doing it will do nothing for your own goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NETim Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 5:14 AM, Bakerjd said: 100% agree. This year I've taken to getting to majors a day early and walking stages/watching that days shooters shoot. It has helped a LOT. I have found recently that since I am usually an RO at locals and we seem to have a bit of new/inexperienced shooters at one of the locals here that I've been doing poorly at that specific match all season. I'm a solid B SS shooter but cant seem to do anything but fail hard at this match every month. This past weekend I was running shooters, then scoring and putting it in the tablet. At one point I had to put my own scores in the tablet..... needles to say match mindset was not even close to being a thing. In fact by the end of the match I was wondering if shooting locals is even worth the time and ammo. I dont really care if I place well at them as I use them to see if what I've practiced is improving but still. It's not asking too much to have others run the Nook, even new shooters. There will be some reluctance on their part often but it's really not a difficult task for the average human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory45acp Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 I think this a open concept. I'm sure many GM won't feel the need to watch others shoot and try to determine their plan to a stage. Lower class shooters with less experience might be better served watching and learning from others whether it's mistakes or seeing something they had in mind won't work. I doubt anyone can say 100% never watch or always watch is the correct way of thinking. Having an open mind is important to grow but confidence in yourself is just as important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ccampo1129 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 5:14 AM, Bakerjd said: 100% agree. This year I've taken to getting to majors a day early and walking stages/watching that days shooters shoot. It has helped a LOT. I have found recently that since I am usually an RO at locals and we seem to have a bit of new/inexperienced shooters at one of the locals here that I've been doing poorly at that specific match all season. I'm a solid B SS shooter but cant seem to do anything but fail hard at this match every month. This past weekend I was running shooters, then scoring and putting it in the tablet. At one point I had to put my own scores in the tablet..... needles to say match mindset was not even close to being a thing. In fact by the end of the match I was wondering if shooting locals is even worth the time and ammo. I dont really care if I place well at them as I use them to see if what I've practiced is improving but still. Man I had an extremely similar situation at a local recently... Just so happens it turned out to be one of my worse matches all year. Im there to enjoy myself and shoot. I understand helping out and i am all about that. But I am totally not a fan of RO'ing. I refuse to get certified for this reason. But showing up early sometimes a day early, definitely improves outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Ccampo1129 said: I refuse to get certified for this reason. So let me get this straight.... you prefer to show up and be a trigger puller. When enough people in this sport do just that, it's the end of USPSA. You won't have any matches to go to. There won't be people to run them... or design stages... or build them... or do stats. Every single match you go to has a solid group of volunteers that allow you to just show up and enjoy yourself. When volunteer help disappears, clubs close. It's just that simple. At the 2021 Michigan Sectional, Ray Hirst talked about RO training during the shooters meeting. He said that he had two GM shooters in one of his RO classes. At the end they both told him that understanding the rules made them a better shooter. This is a volunteer sport. In my humble opinion, taking the timer or manning the tablet is a small part of this sport. Being NROI certified is part of "giving back" to the sport we all enjoy. BC Edited August 6, 2021 by BillChunn Backed down some of the rhetoric.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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