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I fell... (video)


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This happened in a USPSA match a couple of months back.  Just a reminder that if you fall, go ahead and face plant if you have to but keep that firearm pointed down range!!!  That's what kept me from getting DQ'd!!!  Fast forward to 10:36 in the video:

 

 

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18 hours ago, jabarihunt said:

This happened in a USPSA match a couple of months back.  Just a reminder that if you fall, go ahead and face plant if you have to but keep that firearm pointed down range!!!  That's what kept me from getting DQ'd!!!  Fast forward to 10:36 in the video:

 

 

Welcome to the club 🙂 I also slipped during IPSC training: see 01:40 Finger of the trigger and barrel down range 🙂 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, StefVanHauwe said:

Welcome to the club 🙂 I also slipped during IPSC training: see 01:40 Finger of the trigger and barrel down range 🙂 

 

 

GREAT JOB keeping it pointed down range!!!  That concrete looks like it was itching to make someone fall!

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On 4/27/2021 at 10:13 PM, jabarihunt said:

This happened in a USPSA match a couple of months back.  Just a reminder that if you fall, go ahead and face plant if you have to but keep that firearm pointed down range!!!  That's what kept me from getting DQ'd!!!  Fast forward to 10:36 in the video:

 

 

Did you get a reshoot in that stage? 

 

I'd be inclined to rule range equipment failure because the vision barrier was knocked down by your fall before you could engage the targets behind it, rendering that portion of the COF unshootable.

 

That's off the top of my head.  I need to review the rules to make sure.

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1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

Did you get a reshoot in that stage? 

 

I'd be inclined to rule range equipment failure because the vision barrier was knocked down by your fall before you could engage the targets behind it, rendering that portion of the COF unshootable.

 

That's off the top of my head.  I need to review the rules to make sure.

 

The second I fell he yelled stop, so I couldn't continue.  I was able to get a reshoot, but I did pick up a penalty.  I forget exactly what it was, but something to the effect of "user induced equipment failure".  None of us realized it wasn't staked down until later.  We were able to get everything set back up fairly quickly thankfully.

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28 minutes ago, jabarihunt said:

I was able to get a reshoot, but I did pick up a penalty.  I forget exactly what it was, but something to the effect of "user induced equipment failure".  None of us realized it wasn't staked down until later.  We were able to get everything set back up fairly quickly thankfully.

 

Did they still give you the penalty after you all realized the fault line was not staked down?  In my eyes that is a range equipment failure, no penalty and a reshoot.  

 

Along those lines I would ask them to cite exactly which rule they are penalizing you for.  

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12 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Did they still give you the penalty after you all realized the fault line was not staked down?  In my eyes that is a range equipment failure, no penalty and a reshoot.  

 

Along those lines I would ask them to cite exactly which rule they are penalizing you for.  

 

To be 100% honest, I was just upset that I fell!  At the time I also wasn't sure what the rules were regarding that exactly, so I took what the RO said at face value.  My ultimate takeaway, don't fall!!!  😆

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6 minutes ago, jabarihunt said:

My ultimate takeaway, don't fall!!!

 

I do plan my stages to avoid stepping directly on fault lines for numerous reasons.  I also inspect fault lines in areas I think there might be a chance I could step on them or trip on them, like on exit and entry to a shooting spot where you are looking more at the target and the fault line disappears from the periphery.  

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3 hours ago, jabarihunt said:

 

The second I fell he yelled stop, so I couldn't continue.  I was able to get a reshoot, but I did pick up a penalty.  I forget exactly what it was, but something to the effect of "user induced equipment failure".  None of us realized it wasn't staked down until later.  We were able to get everything set back up fairly quickly thankfully.

I can't find a procedural for anything resembling user induced REF.

 

Something to keep in the back of the mind.

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10 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

I can't find a procedural for anything resembling user induced REF.

 

Something to keep in the back of the mind.

 

I found this after it happened.  I don't remember the exact penalty he called at the time, but this sounds similar:

 

Quote

4.5.1 The competitor must not interfere with the range surface, natural foliage, constructions, props or other range equipment (including targets, target stands and target activators) at any time. Violations may incur one procedural penalty per occurrence at the discretion of the Range Officer.

 

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I think falling on a prop accidentally  is not exactly what that is talking about . I had a shooter trip on the nail holding those red fault lines down, only in our squad but we fixed the problem and I gave a reshoot due to range equipment failure. He also kept the firearm pointed down range.

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4 hours ago, jabarihunt said:

 

The second I fell he yelled stop, so I couldn't continue.  I was able to get a reshoot, but I did pick up a penalty.  I forget exactly what it was, but something to the effect of "user induced equipment failure".  None of us realized it wasn't staked down until later.  We were able to get everything set back up fairly quickly thankfully.

Tripping even on a solid fault line then knocking a wall or targets down is not the same as intentionally moving stuff around on purpose. That’s just a reshoot for REF. Nothing more, nothing less

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46 minutes ago, jabarihunt said:

 

I found this after it happened.  I don't remember the exact penalty he called at the time, but this sounds similar:

 

 

So if I'm reading this right, setting up the stage they don't nail down the fault line, create a tripping hazard, and then penalize the shooter when it happens. Something wrong here. I call BS.

 

Slipping in an indoor range on the concrete happens quite often. Between brass and dust/powder/oil covered slick concrete I have seen this happen many times..

 

gerritm

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4 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

Did they still give you the penalty after you all realized the fault line was not staked down? 

 

The ground is not level, fault lines are prone to being warped by the weather, the ground looks a bit damp meaning the stake may or may not work up as folks stomp about, and everybody else had to negotiate the same field of battle. I think we just need to learn to lift our feet. From the video it looks like the shooter might have face planted harder if the fault line had not moved.

 

No snark intended, just sayin it ain't intended to be like astroturf. 

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After watching the video again, I can see how a penalty could be assessed under 4.5.1.  When I first watched it I thought he stepped on the fault line with his right foot which then lifted the left side of the non staked fault line that tripped the shooter.  Under review, nope just a straight up trip.  And I think you are right if the fault line was staked the face plant would have been worse.

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2 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

After watching the video again, I can see how a penalty could be assessed under 4.5.1. 

There was absolutely nothing intentional in @jabarihunt fall.  A penalty for violating 4.5.1 would fall under the "don't be a dick" rule and would for sure fall under appeal.

 

Surely you meant to type "I can't see how"

Edited by SGT_Schultz
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2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

The ground is not level, fault lines are prone to being warped by the weather, the ground looks a bit damp meaning the stake may or may not work up as folks stomp about, and everybody else had to negotiate the same field of battle. I think we just need to learn to lift our feet. From the video it looks like the shooter might have face planted harder if the fault line had not moved.

 

No snark intended, just sayin it ain't intended to be like astroturf. 

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that.

 

The issue I have is a procedural for what was clearly an unavoidable and unintentional alteration of the stage

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7 hours ago, gerritm said:

So if I'm reading this right, setting up the stage they don't nail down the fault line, create a tripping hazard, and then penalize the shooter when it happens. Something wrong here. I call BS.

 

Slipping in an indoor range on the concrete happens quite often. Between brass and dust/powder/oil covered slick concrete I have seen this happen many times..

 

gerritm

 

None of us realized it wasn't staked properly at the time.  It wasn't until I reviewed the video later that day!

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9 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

I can see how a penalty could

 

Context is important. Hence the use of the word could. Would I?  Nope, because I agree it would be the “dick” thing to do. Could I see someone else doing it?  Yes, I could. Would I think it was the “dick” thing to do?  Again, Yes. 

 

The other part of this is the RO is making all of their calls in real time without the aid of video replay. Can the video be brought in later to dispute the call of a penalty?  Not accordig to NROI. 

 

Not to to open another can of worms. 

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I agree with you Sarge, that rule (4.5.1) is meant for dudes moving stuff around or even marking shooting positions, not tripping and knocking things over accidentally.  

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