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Rounds not case gauging


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About a fifth of my rounds are not gauging, the rim ends up poking out of the gauge (not my image, but indicative of the issue).

 

image.png.65e8bf227d2c5c7f7b873e26f7677d54.png

 

These rounds plunk fine in my CZ and SIG P210 barrel. I used a marker and found that the round is getting caught above the rim. From what I've read, it's an issue with case bulge at the bottom where the resizer can't reach. Do you guys experience this too, and how do you deal with it? It hasn't been a problem until this weekend when I had a malfunction. I couldn't diagnose it as I was on the clock, but I think the round didn't chamber and the gun didn't go into battery.

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19 minutes ago, Blackstone45 said:

Is this the trashcan or the practice ammo pile? I wouldn't mind throwing away just the cases, but it's finished rounds that are being gauged

Practice ammo.

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I use an El cheapo Lee sizing die and adjust the die so the bottom just touches the shell plate. The carbide ring in the Lee die reaches where most others will not. I never have this issue. I have purchased them in the past and took a slight amount of the entrance of the die off to move the sizing ring down even further. The Lee die will generally get the bulge out of a 9mm case.

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I use a 100 round case gauge and about 10- 15 percent of the rounds using unsorted range pick up brass stick out similarly. They will pass the plunk test in my barrel so I use them for practice. I use to plunk test any rounds that didn’t pass the gauge but now don’t bother.

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In your picture the rim must not be good unless its forced in there. 

 

Anything that I guage that looks like that gets shot unless it looks real bad. 

 

If the match is important to me I'd put it aside. 

 

 

Edited by dansedgli
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You'll get a feel for how much "lift" is acceptable depending on your make/style of gauge. I consider the pictured round a pass if that was my gauge because I know it will plunk in all my barrel if it's just a little proud.

 

P.S. Make sure your sizing die touches the shell plate.

Edited by 4n2t0
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There is nothing worse than a fat 9 mm at the base when it comes to jams, it won't go into battery and you need a jack hammer to get it out.  I started something new recently rather than loading a thousand then checking them I do the drop check every time I empty the reloading tray (200).   To avoid the dreaded jam from purgatory when I encounter your failure, I put it into the case gauge backwards if it goes in about 1/8" its good to go, if not I set it aside for failure analysis.  Most of the time a tiny bit of crimp turns out to be the issue.  Not all cases are created equally.   With the pile of rejects I run them back thru the crimp station, drop check again, failed again I run them thru my case pro, if they fail again into the cup for disassembly.   A decade ago I tried the U-die, well that didn't go well, I still have it somewhere.  The Hornady and Dillon dies IMHO do a lot better job.  It could be that 9 out of 10 are ok but that one that isn't is the one that concerns me, maybe it was the 14 stitches in the web of my had when I was pounding one out and hit the beaver tail, my only DNF score.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

I'm currently loading on a Dillon XL750 with all Dillon 9mm carbide dies. I used to load on a single stage press with Lee dies. I took the rounds that were failing and put them through the Lee factory crimp die, and that has fixed them. I definitely feel some significant resistance when I put the rounds through the FCD. I think the FCD fully resizes the case, whereas the Dillon crimp die just crimps the neck? After checking the round after it's been through the FCD, I can see clear marks near where the bullet bulges out the case below the neck. I'm now worried that the FCD might be deforming the bullet when it resizes the case.

Edited by Blackstone45
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7 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:

Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

I'm currently loading on a Dillon XL750 with all Dillon 9mm carbide dies. I used to load on a single stage press with Lee dies. I took the rounds that were failing and put them through the Lee factory crimp die, and that has fixed them. I definitely feel some significant resistance when I put the rounds through the FCD. I think the FCD fully resizes the case, whereas the Dillon crimp die just crimps the neck? After checking the round after it's been through the FCD, I can see clear marks near where the bullet bulges out the case below the neck. I'm now worried that the FCD might be deforming the bullet when it resizes the case.

The FCD swages the bullet down to .355”. 

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6 hours ago, George16 said:

The FCD swages the bullet down to .355”. 

That's probably bad? If I recall correctly, the 125gr polymer coated bullets I'm loading have a diameter of .356 or .357

 

I did notice that a couple of my bullets appeared to be tumbling downrange.

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I think you're wasting time and money trying to fix a non problem (and now you're tumbling, lol). The Lee FCD is an unnecessary crutch. I load mixed brass on a 650 with Dillon dies and my rejection rate is ~1% using a hundo gauge. If a round sits a little proud in the gauge, like the one pictured above, I consider it a pass because I know it will plunk in all my barrels (test a range of failures to confirm). Again, make sure that the sizing die makes contact with the shell plate, do not back it off.

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34 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

I think you're wasting time and money trying to fix a non problem (and now you're tumbling, lol). The Lee FCD is an unnecessary crutch. I load mixed brass on a 650 with Dillon dies and my rejection rate is ~1% using a hundo gauge. If a round sits a little proud in the gauge, like the one pictured above, I consider it a pass because I know it will plunk in all my barrels (test a range of failures to confirm). Again, make sure that the sizing die makes contact with the shell plate, do not back it off.

This has been my experience with the 650, Dillon dies and using mixed brass as well.   Loading 124 grain coated lead bullets.   The Hundo gauge is a wonderful tool btw. 

Edited by NETim
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1 hour ago, 4n2t0 said:

I think you're wasting time and money trying to fix a non problem (and now you're tumbling, lol). The Lee FCD is an unnecessary crutch. I load mixed brass on a 650 with Dillon dies and my rejection rate is ~1% using a hundo gauge. If a round sits a little proud in the gauge, like the one pictured above, I consider it a pass because I know it will plunk in all my barrels (test a range of failures to confirm). Again, make sure that the sizing die makes contact with the shell plate, do not back it off.

I don't think it's a sizing issue anymore. I resized 20 cases, and they all dropped into the gauge perfectly. But after I loaded them, a couple ended up like in the picture. I suspect it's the bulge at the base of the bullet. The crimp is at 0.377" so I don't think that's the issue. I'll give my pistol barrels a good clean and then plunk test all of the "failures". Sounds like an issue that's just inherent to coated bullets and mixed brass.

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I used to be a little OCD about rounds that gauged as your picture.

I've come to accept that just because it doesn't seat flush is not a reason for undue concern.

If they are that close then they plunk test just fine in my guns.

I'll put rounds that are similar to yours into the practice pile but it's really not necessary.

Of course my guns are not your guns and there is a limit to how proud they can be before they become problematical.

Again it's gun dependent. My "practice only" rounds may hang up in your gun.

And coated bullets are more challenging than jacketed to get right, no doubt.

 

 

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Something I’ve not seen anyone discuss is the rim itself being marred or burred. I’m guessing it’s from the extractor claw but it’s burred so that part of the rim won’t go into the case gauge. 
 

 

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1050 press and 38 Super.

With a Dillon die some of the cases seem to move a bit in the shell holder and are sized a little off centre and stick up in the gauge.

With a Hornady sizing die there is no problem. Maybe it is the shape of the mouth of the die.

 

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On 4/26/2021 at 3:03 PM, Blackstone45 said:

I've read, it's an issue with case bulge at the bottom where the resizer can't reach.

 

Use the LEE Bulge buster on those. 

https://leeprecision.com/case-conditioning-tools/lee-bulge-buster-kit/

 

With the 9MM MAKAROV die.

https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factory-crimp-die-9mm-makarov.html

 

Cheaper than a roll sizer and will resize only the base area.

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