Banning a shooter, L1 match

[Sestock]

Best advice is to contact your section coordinator and area director for guidance 

[WaJim]

On 4/26/2021 at 5:07 AM, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think my club needs to do that. There is a guy here that I don't think anyone can keep track of how many times he's DQ'd. The approximate number is north of 20 last I heard. Everyone has seen him DQ at some point. Several rounds have been sent over the berm. 

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In the PNW we have a Safety Officer. Each Club keeps track of the DQ's and send the reports to this Officer. At IIRC 2 or 3 DQ in 3 months the shooter HAS to visit the Safety Officer before he can compete in the local clubs. If this shooter continues to be a problem then the Safety Officer will give the shooter a vacation from all local matches.....

Edited May 27, 2021 by WaJim

[Bakerjd]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:34 AM, WaJim said:

.

 

In the PNW we have a Safety Officer. Each Club keeps track of the DQ's and send the reports to this Officer. At IIRC 2 or 3 DQ in 3 months the shooter HAS to visit the Safety Officer before he can compete in the local clubs. If this shooter continues to be a problem then the Safety Officer will give the shooter a vacation from all local matches.....

Interesting idea yet technically not allowed under USPSA rules. In this situation it's not a safety issue. It's a personal issue between a shooter and the "md". 

 

On 5/7/2021 at 8:17 AM, Sestock said:

Best advice is to contact your section coordinator and area director for guidance 

That may be the next step. 

[KenK]

When these people show up, its time to leave, even in the middle of a Match. Your safety is more important. Let the club and the USPSA know that you will NOT attend any more matches with this person in attendance. Yes I know there are a limited number of clubs and ranges but Money talks and regular shooters who support a club and matches are hard to find.

 

KenK

[Bakerjd]

On 6/7/2021 at 4:08 AM, KenK said:

When these people show up, its time to leave, even in the middle of a Match. Your safety is more important. Let the club and the USPSA know that you will NOT attend any more matches with this person in attendance. Yes I know there are a limited number of clubs and ranges but Money talks and regular shooters who support a club and matches are hard to find.

 

KenK

Maybe where you are but this particular match gets a solid turn out every time. I've never really understood why though. Every stage is just a crap ton of targets and has only one way to shoot it. 

[Janskis]

On 6/7/2021 at 10:18 AM, Bakerjd said:

Interesting idea yet technically not allowed under USPSA rules. In this situation it's not a safety issue. It's a personal issue between a shooter and the "md". 

 

That may be the next step. 

Does it have to be? What in USPSA rules prevents such an arrangement done for range safety if the ban consists of all local matches at the range regardless of discipline? I don't see a reason why a range ban between the range and a shooter should have anything to do with USPSA rules. A local safety officer can't ban the shooter from the sport, but can ban the shooter from the range.

[PatJones]

7 hours ago, Janskis said:

Does it have to be? What in USPSA rules prevents such an arrangement done for range safety if the ban consists of all local matches at the range regardless of discipline? I don't see a reason why a range ban between the range and a shooter should have anything to do with USPSA rules. A local safety officer can't ban the shooter from the sport, but can ban the shooter from the range.

USPSA doesn't have safety officers

[Jim Watson]

Famous (thankfully parting) words from a character here:  

"I can shoot the gun, I just can't handle all these RULES!"  Including safety rules.  

Fortunately he quit on his own and we did not have to jump through the hoops to ban him.

The bad part was, his wife would not shoot without him along and she had been an asset to the club, careful and cordial.   

[Thomas H]

3 hours ago, PatJones said:

USPSA doesn't have safety officers

This was a reply to the comment of:  "A local safety officer can't ban the shooter from the sport, but can ban the shooter from the range. "

And correct, USPSA doesn't have SOs.  But ranges do---and the point was that a range can indeed ban people from their range.  That would mean that person could not attend a local match, because they weren't allowed into that range. 

[Cuz]

2 hours ago, Thomas H said:

This was a reply to the comment of:  "A local safety officer can't ban the shooter from the sport, but can ban the shooter from the range. "

And correct, USPSA doesn't have SOs.  But ranges do---and the point was that a range can indeed ban people from their range.  That would mean that person could not attend a local match, because they weren't allowed into that range. 

This sounds like the correct answer, especially since the shooter is a liability to the club. It has nothing to do with USPSA, or the type of match it is. Bring the matter to the Board that runs the range. 

[SGT_Schultz]

7 hours ago, Cuz said:

This sounds like the correct answer, especially since the shooter is a liability to the club. It has nothing to do with USPSA, or the type of match it is. Bring the matter to the Board that runs the range. 

 

I know of a shooter whose conduct during matches (NRA Highpower Rifle) was so bad (think challenges to a fist fight) that he was legally trespassed from said club.

[Cuz]

8 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I know of a shooter whose conduct during matches (NRA Highpower Rifle) was so bad (think challenges to a fist fight) that he was legally trespassed from said club.

Problem solved, USPSA not involved, it’s win/win. 

[George Jones]

Not stated in the rules, but IMO any shooter who participates in USPSA matches who is banned from from a range/venue (for safety concerns) should be reported to the USPSA Section Coordinator and Area Director.  They would then be able to inform other USPSA MDs in the area in case that individual just migrates his safety problems elsewhere.

If he is banned by a USPSA club MD, the rules require a report to HQ.

[Trump]

I think that's a bit drastic and malicious to ban a shooter for that. Those kinds of people should be required to attend and show proof of professional firearms training before attending future participation at any public shooting event 

 

My neighbor is a police officer who shoots on his own property and doesn't even exude the brain power and common sense to keep his bullet projectiles on his own property instead of into the side of my house and through my parked vehicles. And that incompetent idiot carries a loaded firearm in public and has the powers to arrest and kill someone if required to.

[twodownzero]

On 4/25/2021 at 12:13 AM, Kraj said:

You could ban them from the club and have nothing to do with uspsa rules. 

No you couldn't, if you want to continue to host USPSA matches and they are a member.

[Sarge]

6 minutes ago, twodownzero said:

No you couldn't, if you want to continue to host USPSA matches and they are a member.

That's not true at all. A property owner can ban ANYBODY from the property regardless of sport affiliation. I have seen it done a handful of times just here locally. One club owner banned a shooter just because said shooter bad mouthed the club. all of shooters attempts to get the org involved fell on deaf ears.

[twodownzero]

22 minutes ago, Sarge said:

That's not true at all. A property owner can ban ANYBODY from the property regardless of sport affiliation. I have seen it done a handful of times just here locally. One club owner banned a shooter just because said shooter bad mouthed the club. all of shooters attempts to get the org involved fell on deaf ears.

 

That's true, but we don't have to let them host USPSA matches or use USPSA's intellectual property.  And if that is reported, it will be dealt with.  Intellectual property is property, too. 

 

This is what is really great about us controlling the USPSA through the corporate governance process.  And if you think recent events are not characteristic of how that can happen, just sit and wait.

Edited October 1, 2021 by twodownzero

[Sarge]

12 hours ago, twodownzero said:

 

That's true, but we don't have to let them host USPSA matches or use USPSA's intellectual property.  And if that is reported, it will be dealt with.  Intellectual property is property, too. 

 

You are just making too many incorrect assumptions. Here locally there are a few banned from more than one club. They whined to HQ but those clubs are still going strong with USPSA.

  There is nothing in the USPSA bylaws, rules, etc addressing clubs banning people from the property. 
  Also keep in mind people can get banned from clubs for absolutely nothing to do with USPSA or even shooting in general. We had a guy tear stuff up with his quad and he got reported. Banned on the spot.

[Boomstick303]

In short, Clubs that put on USPSA, SC, and/or IDPA matches are guests of the Range they operate their matches at.

 

I think the huge misunderstanding is how USPSA Clubs operate on ranges.  In most case I have seen, someone comes along and creates a dynamic shooting club.  They usually create this Club with a rule set in place weather it be USPSA, Steel Challenge and/or IDPA.  Sometimes these Clubs will hold matches for more than one of those disciplines.  They have to find a range to operate on.  The Club itself is not the Range or Gun Club they operate on, or own the Range they operate on.  They are an operating entity on that Range and pay the Range to use facilities that are tied to the event the Club(s) are putting on.  The Range typically was operating way before the Club(s) was created to hold USPSA, SC, and/or IDPA matches.  These Clubs have to follow Range rules.  The Range can kick anyone off their range if they feel it is warranted for whatever reason.  Trust me the Club putting on the USPSA, SC, and/or IDPA matches is not going to go to war for one individual to loose the facility they can operate at.   The governing bodies of these organizations are not going to go to bat for anyone person by telling ranges they can or cannot host USPSA, SC, and/or IDPA matches because they banned a person. This would all become a huge pissing match that the shooting Organizations, and Ranges really could care less about and are not going to get into for numerous reasons.  This would not be good for the health for USPSA, SC and IDPA in the long run.

 

One of the many USPSA Clubs I shoot a match at once a month has to have all of their targets up against a berm.  This limits stage designs.  The Match director makes sure all stages designed for the match follows this rule on his final walk through before the match commences to ensure the USPSA Club is following Range rules.  This ensures the Club can continue to operate at that Range.

 

I do not even understand how this is even a conversation to be honest.  

Edited October 2, 2021 by Boomstick303

[SGT_Schultz]

12 hours ago, twodownzero said:

 

That's true, but we don't have to let them host USPSA matches or use USPSA's intellectual property.  And if that is reported, it will be dealt with.  Intellectual property is property, too. 

 

This is what is really great about us controlling the USPSA through the corporate governance process.  And if you think recent events are not characteristic of how that can happen, just sit and wait.

You truly have no clue.

 

A club's internal processes for addressing safety and conduct violations by members and guests are of no concern of USPSA.

[twodownzero]

10 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

You truly have no clue.

 

A club's internal processes for addressing safety and conduct violations by members and guests are of no concern of USPSA.

I have no clue?  Let's leave the personal insults out of this.

 

A club that wants to continue to host USPSA matches has no choice but to allow all active USPSA members to shoot its matches.  If they don't like that, they should be expelled from the organization.

 

In recent years, there have been several high profile incidents of serious behaviors unbecoming of our organizations.   Those responsible have been suspended and even banned from USPSA because of their conduct.  But USPSA also has rules as to how to deal with these situations, those people, even the most guilty, were afforded due process, and ultimately received what the BOD ruled was their just deserts.

 

If you have a problem with USPSA dictating how your club handles these issues, you should turn in your card and not be part of our organization.  Because we have rules for a reason, they are uniform throughout the organization, and they must be followed.

 

I attended a USPSA match once where they wouldn't let me walk around with my pistol in a holster and told me to bag it between stages.  I reported it to the section coordinator and never shot there again.

 

There is one and only one set of USPSA rules.  You want to host our events?  Follow them or GTFO.

 

And leave your personal insults to someone else.

[MHicks]

 

 

 

 

"I attended a USPSA match once where they wouldn't let me walk around with my pistol in a holster and told me to bag it between stages.  I reported it to the section coordinator and never shot there again"

 

That sounds as if the club continued to hold USPSA matches there and you chose not to shoot there anymore. As opposed to USPSA removing their affiliation. Is that correct?

 

The above quote was not by Sgt. Schultz. Couldn't figure out how to change that.

Edited October 2, 2021 by MHicks
Added a correction

[Boomstick303]

Wow....

 

I am at a complete loss of words......

Edited October 2, 2021 by Boomstick303

[Sarge]

8 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

Wow....

 

I am at a complete loss of words......

Happens to me quite often here

[SGT_Schultz]

21 hours ago, twodownzero said:

A club that wants to continue to host USPSA matches has no choice but to allow all active USPSA members to shoot its matches.

 

 

LOL you try running to USPSA after you get trespassed by a club's board of directors for being unsafe/disruptive/a nuisance and sheriff's deputies show up to arrest you.

 

Let us know how that works

Edited October 2, 2021 by SGT_Schultz