USPSA Revolver Division?

[MattInTheHat]

On 4/18/2021 at 7:24 PM, Fishbreath said:

As a thirtyish revolver guy, I also have a vested interest in keeping the division irons-only until my eyes start to go.

Pushing 50, and I agree.

[MattInTheHat]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:53 AM, BadShot said:

Very good points.  I don't mind shooting my 627 with a dot in Open, it's just for fun for me.  Just throwing this out:  If a dot makes a gun 10%-20% more competitive, why not allow 625's to have a dot?  Maybe even allow them to shoot minor, but to be scored as major. A 5-inch minor 625 would be really nice to shoot.  It might help make up some of the 2 round disadvantage.

Good idea, but the 8v6 advantage is unbeatable. I was usually waiting on the gun to return from trigger pull rather than recoil, not waiting for my sights. One reload is 2 seconds.

Edited April 30, 2021 by MattInTheHat

[rwmagnus]

On 4/21/2021 at 8:53 AM, BadShot said:

Very good points.  I don't mind shooting my 627 with a dot in Open, it's just for fun for me.  Just throwing this out:  If a dot makes a gun 10%-20% more competitive, why not allow 625's to have a dot?  Maybe even allow them to shoot minor, but to be scored as major. A 5-inch minor 625 would be really nice to shoot.  It might help make up some of the 2 round disadvantage.

I have two 625s a 4” and 5”. And a Model 25 in 6 or 6.5”. I’ve shot major and minor in all these pistols and can’t really tell the difference in barrel length between the two power factors..625’s ruled the roost for awhile now its an 8 shot game, so I bought an 8 shot 627.  

 

I prefer shooting red dots. It’s a shame but most all revolver activity is gone in Southern CA. No steel challenge or ICORE to speak of. A few guys shoot USPSA regularly. Not sure what can be done to increase the popularity but what’s happened here can happen in your state. Lets keep revolver competitions alive!

 

i just drove to AZ to compete in an ICORE match just to have fun with the round gun!

[BadShot]

Since revolvers are already allowed in production, why not let the production revolvers use red dots?  They wouldn't be totally competitive, but it's closer than being in open.

[rwmagnus]

26 minutes ago, BadShot said:

Since revolvers are already allowed in production, why not let the production revolvers use red dots?  They wouldn't be totally competitive, but it's closer than being in open.

I don’t see USPSA making any changes to their revolver division. If there were more participation and demand it might catch their ear but sadly that’s not the case. 
 

Putting a red dot on a revolver only makes it competitive with red dot revolvers. You can enter Open Class and get smoked but still get trigger time and match experience. Or enter revolver division and DNF the last stage so your score doesn’t enter. Our local matches nobody really cares so just go shoot. A Level 2 or higher match would be a different story. 

[twodownzero]

We have a division for this.....it's called open.

 

Just as we had a division for carry optics.....it's called open.

 

It's been there the whole time.

 

Want to experiment?  Open is for you.

[PatJones]

We do not need to split revolver participation even further.

 

Shoot open, your revo buddies will know to compare your scores on Practiscore. Buy prescription shooting glasses like me and shoot irons.

[AzShooter]

I remember Vic Pickett always shooting his Open Revolver at the Ernie Hill Desert Classics and their follow-up matches.  He ruled the match against other revolvers but shot for fun and took it in stride.

 

I shot my 625 5 inch for years in USPSA and ICORE.  I still think there is no better gun when it comes to reloads.  My ICORE number was AZ-45 because of my gun.  It's a hole new game now where 8 shots rule.  If you spit division would there be enough to have trophies or prizes for each?  I think it takes 5 for a first place  recognition.

 

I shoot my 617 in SCSA matches in RFPO.  I do it for the fun of competing and every once in a while beating the bottom feeders but I have no asperations of shooting top scores with it.  I always shot revolver because I enjoyed it.  When I shot USPSA with an auto it was a Glock 19 with extra capacity base pads before the coming of 20 round or more centerfire guns and I won a lot of matches because I eliminated the reload.

 

When I shot the 625 ( there was no division for revolver back then ) Range Masters would tell me they were sorry but didn't take the reloads into consideration and I don't think they should have.  Shooting Revolver is a choice that you have to live with.  You shoot against yourself, which is what you should be doing anyway. Those courses of fire kept me honest on making the best reload possible.

 

So, NO! I would not like to see another split.  The division is fine the way it is.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

[BadShot]

I don't think it splits it.  Revolver stays as it is, with no one participating.  Today if you want to you use an optic, you go to open.  If there is no one else doing the same, you compete against no one.  If you can use it in Prod, it give you someone to compete against.  Not very even, but it's something.  

[pskys2]

58 minutes ago, BadShot said:

I don't think it splits it.  Revolver stays as it is, with no one participating.  Today if you want to you use an optic, you go to open.  If there is no one else doing the same, you compete against no one.  If you can use it in Prod, it give you someone to compete against.  Not very even, but it's something.  

Splitting Revolver Division was not a topic, expanding was.

 

As for those that keep talking of Open, in regards to CO (or Revolver) CO now leads ALL Divisions at most Levels.  

At the Kansas Free State we have 11 Revolvers (lost 1 to Covid for 10 now) 15 PCC, 20's for Open, Limited & Production, 2 in SS, 0 in L10 and 40+ in CO.  So CO has become the Division to be in.

 

At our local club matches here we run from lil' ol' me to 5 or 6.  CO will usually have  a majority of the match though.

[pskys2]

7 hours ago, twodownzero said:

We have a division for this.....it's called open.

 

Just as we had a division for carry optics.....it's called open.

 

It's been there the whole time.

 

Want to experiment?  Open is for you.

Open is falling behind, CO is the new game in town.

[matteekay]

I think the current division is fine.

 

On the flipside, I also think (and have petitioned NRIO about it, who could not care less) that revolvers with a micro-dot should be allowed in Carry Optics. If iron-sighted revo's can run in Production, and CO is Production with a dot, then it really stands to reason that the wheelgun should be included. I get that the optic is technically frame- and not slide-mounted, but I think having 12-to-14 less rounds is probably a big enough disadvantage to offset that.

[MikeyScuba]

Once I shot a match with a dot, that was it for irons.  Come over to the open dark side, it’s way more fun over here.

 

I did put a dot on my 929  but covid killed icore north of the 49th and the border is still closed so it’s been locked away in the safe. 

[pskys2]

9 hours ago, matteekay said:

I think the current division is fine.

 

On the flipside, I also think (and have petitioned NRIO about it, who could not care less) that revolvers with a micro-dot should be allowed in Carry Optics. If iron-sighted revo's can run in Production, and CO is Production with a dot, then it really stands to reason that the wheelgun should be included. I get that the optic is technically frame- and not slide-mounted, but I think having 12-to-14 less rounds is probably a big enough disadvantage to offset that.

It is a bit curious USPSA is not the only game that has that restriction.  So does NRA AP.  

Maybe they figure they need to save us from ourselves?  In reality, from the scores I've seen posted, even at the top end the CO & Open times are surprisingly close.  So it may well come down to a difference with no distinction?

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

Once I shot a match with a dot, that was it for irons.  Come over to the open dark side, it’s way more fun over here.

 

I did put a dot on my 929  but covid killed icore north of the 49th and the border is still closed so it’s been locked away in the safe. 

I'm actually the opposite, I just can't seem to gain any speed with a Dot.  The accuracy is better, but that doesn't translate over to accuracy at speed.  What I pick up in one area I seem to lose in another.  At the recent A3 Steel Challenge Championships I shot both a Dot 627 & an IS 627 on the same flight, I beat myself handily with the Irons, the Dot was several seconds slower.  I've put the time in practice and have the presentation down, except for WH which I still struggle with, but with the Dot jumping around I become too deliberate in my splits and transitions.  It's real good for practice as it shows me exactly where my problems are.  I had the same issue with Dots in the '90's when I tried them on my 1911's/Caspian HiCap/Para platforms.  I made Master with the Iron Sights just before the transition to Limited/Open and switched to a Dot after.  My scores took a hit and never came back.

I know it's all in my head, but for me I like shooting Irons.

As a side note I also shoot with one eye, have put serious time and work into switching to both eyes but after 2 years I gave up.  And my scores increased again.  So, for me, it is possibly some "vision" thing.  Or in the focus/interpretation of my vision.

[Fishbreath]

3 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

I did put a dot on my 929  but covid killed icore north of the 49th and the border is still closed so it’s been locked away in the safe. 

 

ICORE's pretty dead south of the border, too, unless you're lucky on location. I can drive to the entire Western PA USPSA section, five or six Ohio clubs, two or three section/state matches, and one area match in less time than it would take me to get to the nearest ICORE club.

 

10 hours ago, matteekay said:

On the flipside, I also think (and have petitioned NRIO about it, who could not care less) that revolvers with a micro-dot should be allowed in Carry Optics.

 

I hope this isn't too political for the forum rules, but given the pace of and limited forethought evident in the last few years of rules changes, I'm perfectly happy to be in a division that HQ doesn't seem to care much about.

[MikeyScuba]

I never got consistent at matches or at shot calling with irons.  Could be I'm target focused like 100% of the time so the transition to the dot was life changing.  I'm currently having a blast like literally (shooint 38SC, super comp -not short colt lol)

We were having fun shooting matches in the US.  Did last year but the new  current rules make it costly in money and time.

 

[twodownzero]

15 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Open is falling behind, CO is the new game in town.

Before Welfare Open, Open was just Open.

[BJBeard]

I'm 82, 83 Oct 21! Just got an S&W 929 JM Performance Center 9 mm Revolver, just in case! Looking forward to my 1st club match Saturday 8/14. Shooting just for fun since I usually finish last, EXCEPT I'll probably be the only revolver shooter and finish FIRST IN CLASS!!!! 

[ima45dv8]

52 minutes ago, BJBeard said:

I'm 82, 83 Oct 21! Just got an S&W 929 JM Performance Center 9 mm Revolver, just in case! Looking forward to my 1st club match Saturday 8/14. Shooting just for fun since I usually finish last, EXCEPT I'll probably be the only revolver shooter and finish FIRST IN CLASS!!!! 

Well then, congratulations in advance!

[Gomar83]

Weather you are the only or one of many. As long as you have fun that’s is all that matters.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 7/21/2021 at 10:42 PM, pskys2 said:

Open is falling behind, CO is the new game in town.

 

I see the same in my neck of the woods

[SGT_Schultz]

On 7/22/2021 at 12:18 AM, matteekay said:

I also think (and have petitioned NRIO about it, who could not care less) that revolvers with a micro-dot should be allowed in Carry Optics. If iron-sighted revo's can run in Production, and CO is Production with a dot, then it really stands to reason that the wheelgun should be included. I get that the optic is technically frame- and not slide-mounted, but I think having 12-to-14 less rounds is probably a big enough disadvantage to offset that.

 

 I see your point but optic-sighted revolvers will be just as uncompetitive in CO as they are in Open.  So just go shoot Open.

 

There is nothing to gain by allowing them in CO.  Not for CO shooters and not for Revo shooters.

[tkheard]

1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

 I see your point but optic-sighted revolvers will be just as uncompetitive in CO as they are in Open.  So just go shoot Open.

 

There is nothing to gain by allowing them in CO.  Not for CO shooters and not for Revo shooters.

So, that’s what I’m doing because the CO rules require the optic mounted to the slide. When your eyes don’t work with irons anymore, you might see it differently. 
Besides, if I beat anyone in Open, they’ve had a really bad day.

[Fishbreath]

11 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

I see the same in my neck of the woods

 

CO is as fast as Limited and half the price or less for competitive gear—that's compelling value for anyone who likes to go fast.

 

10 hours ago, tkheard said:

Besides, if I beat anyone in Open, they’ve had a really bad day.

 

I edged out an Open guy on a classifier the other day, and that had me grinning.