New load help? FTF

[lroy]

I wanted to try out steel challenge, but I'm all set up for 40. My first time trying a minor load with this setup. I swapped recoil springs and tried 165gr BBI at 3.7gr sport pistol. 

 

 

About half the rounds either had a failure to go into battery or a failure to extract.

 

I'm not sure the best way to go about fixing the malfunctions. Should I bump it to 4.0gr to fix the extract issue? Would that also solve the battery failure? Any advice?

Edited April 16, 2021 by lroy

[N3WWN]

It's hard to tell because the video doesn't show the actual malfunctions (besides when the the slide didn't go into battery), but it looks like the loads are really light. 

 

To increase the slide travel in recoil, try:

 

A ) Further reducing the recoil spring weight

and/or

B ) Bumping up the powder charge

 

I wouldn't worry so much about getting really low recoiling ammo for Steel Challenge.  I only occasionally shoot SC and almost made Master with my standard USPSA major ammo.

[CHA-LEE]

I agree with the above observation that there doesn't seem to be enough powder to cycle the slide fully. 3.7gr of powder with a 165gr bullet seems like a very light load. You should use a chrono to verify the velocity of the ammo. With 165's you should be at 1000 - 1050fps to make major power factor.

[Postal Bob]

What weight spring are you using, you didn't say? But it does appear the slide is not traveling back enough to fully eject the empties.

[lroy]

1 hour ago, N3WWN said:

It's hard to tell because the video doesn't show the actual malfunctions (besides when the the slide didn't go into battery), but it looks like the loads are really light. 

 

To increase the slide travel in recoil, try:

 

A ) Further reducing the recoil spring weight

and/or

B ) Bumping up the powder charge

 

I wouldn't worry so much about getting really low recoiling ammo for Steel Challenge.  I only occasionally shoot SC and almost made Master with my standard USPSA major ammo.

 

Oh, thats interesting. Uh maybe I'm going about this all wrong then. Lol

 

 

1 hour ago, CHA-LEE said:

I agree with the above observation that there doesn't seem to be enough powder to cycle the slide fully. 3.7gr of powder with a 165gr bullet seems like a very light load. You should use a chrono to verify the velocity of the ammo. With 165's you should be at 1000 - 1050fps to make major power factor.

 

You're right. It's difficult because I don't have a chrono or access to an outdoor range, so I've been kind of going off information that others have posted. I was aiming for 40 minor for steel challenge, but just guessing isn't the best way to go about it. My major load was 200gr BBI with 4.0 sport pistol / 11lb recoil spring and that got me to 170PF.

 

13 minutes ago, Postal Bob said:

What weight spring are you using, you didn't say? But it does appear the slide is not traveling back enough to fully eject the empties.

 

This is a 6lb recoil spring. (It came recommended for 9mm minor use by PT for the honcho).

Edited April 16, 2021 by lroy

[CHA-LEE]

Developing loads without a chrono is like trying to drive across the country without a speedometer in your car and hoping that you are going the correct speed limit. Use the correct tools for the job. It will save you time and headache in the long run.

[Yeti]

Yes, get a chrono.   From vid, looks like short stroking.  The empties are barely getting out. 

Go up on the drop weight a bit and/or go down to the next recoil spring weight.

[AHI]

15 hours ago, lroy said:

y major load was 200gr BBI with 4.0 sport pistol / 11lb recoil spring and that got me to 170PF.

Most including my self. When going from major to minor just put a lighter bullet on their existing 

major power charge. This should have been your starting charge.

[lroy]

I see. You've all gave me a good path to move forward with. Appreciate everyone sharing the knowledge.

 

Can chronos be used indoors? A friend let me shoot his,but there was a minimum distance.

Edited April 17, 2021 by lroy

[AHI]

39 minutes ago, lroy said:

Can chronos be used indoors? A friend let me shoot his,but there was a minimum distance.

Edited 38 minutes ago by lroy

some can. But not all.

[Postal Bob]

You're using a 6lb recoil spring, and your empties are barely ejecting? I can see why they would fail to feed, or go into battery, with such a light spring. But they should be ejecting no matter how light your powder charge. 

My minor .40 load is 3gr titegroup, over a 180 gr bullet at 735 fps. I'm using a 10lb recoil spring, and have no problem ejecting or feeding. So I don't think the problem is your load or recoil spring.

What I'm thinking now is that your extractor is too tight. At the reduced load, theres not enough force to let the extractor release  the fired brass cleanly. And with the extractor too tight, and with 6lb recoil spring, there's not enough force to let the cartridge rim easily slide under the extractor when feeding a new round. When shooting your major loads, and a heavier recoil spring, there's enough force both ways to overcome a tight extractor. But not with the lighter load and recoil spring. Check the tension on your extractor first.

[zzt]

When I shot 40 for USPSA and SCSA I used 3.7gr e3 for 172 PF under a 180 and 2.8 under the same for 144 PF.  Same recoil spring, same POI.  In my experience you need at LEAST .5gr more of SP to equal e3, and usually more.

 

I never liked the idea of changing recoil springs for different loads.  I was always worried I would forget.  For SCSA who cares.  You tune your gun to your load so the sights come right back to normal.  There is no way you can transition faster than your sights return in steel challenge.  So forget about whimpy mopuse fart loads nad make something that runs 100%.

 

BTW, if you chrono indoors you need an IR light kit.

[Kilrb]

I use the load data on Sport Pistol  web site for a starting point. But I chrono all of them some of my loads change a lot from what you read or get recommended to do. I am doing the same with 9mm that I just started loading, I normally just load 40