Lastcat Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 This isn't an RO Test question. We had a question whether a Popper, Plate or Steel was left standing at the end of COF and would that be a FTSA? On the Scoring Tablet, it is usually just minus 1 steel (-5 points). Been searching the Rules but have not been able to find the ruling for steel and leaving a Popper, Steel or even a Plate on a plate rack. I'm new to the sport and shot a few Matches. I have seen steel standing and don't recall a FTSA Proc. during my 3 yrs in the game. I found that 10.2.7 could apply, except as long as they shot at the steel at least once and it is still standing. Then if it is left standing it would be a -5 penalty and not a FTSA. Since the steel is a scoring target and the competitor left said plate/steel standing without engaging, then this would be an FTSA? Maybe I just answered my own question. Clarification would be helpful. Is there a ruling for failure to engage a popper/steel/plate? Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Mike FTSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lastcat Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, HCH said: Mike FTSA Ouch, double whammy! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 FTSA only applies when the shooter Fails To Shoot At a target. If they miss the steel plate/poppper and move on, its just a miss. No different than a cardboard target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lastcat Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, broadside72 said: FTSA only applies when the shooter Fails To Shoot At a target. If they miss the steel plate/poppper and move on, its just a miss. No different than a cardboard target. Right, but on the score pad, one can enter 1 less steel in a certain area of the score pad. But do you also mark it as a Mike? If so where? Or does entering 1 less steel also apply the Mike? Then it would be -5 for the steel and -10 for the Mike. If that is the case. Edited April 13, 2021 by Lastcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lastcat said: Right, but on the score pad, one can enter 1 less steel in a certain area of the score pad. But do you also mark it as a Mike? If so where? By marking one less steel that IS the mike. There is no other place it gets marked. Then if RO KNOWS they didn’t shoot at it that’s also an FTSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lastcat Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Sarge said: By marking one less steel that IS the mike. There is no other place it gets marked. Then if RO KNOWS they didn’t shoot at it that’s also an FTSA Perfect, thanks Sarge. Mystery solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Lastcat said: Right, but on the score pad, one can enter 1 less steel in a certain area of the score pad. But do you also mark it as a Mike? If so where? Or does entering 1 less steel also apply the Mike? Then it would be -5 for the steel and -10 for the Mike. If that is the case. Practiscore has all steel set as hit for scoring. If there is a miss (standing plate/popper in your example) the RO would just tap the M button to add one mike. The steel "A"s would decrement accordingly. If the RO is sure that the plate was not shot at, he would also add a procedural. BTW: The penalty for a miss on steel is 2x the scoring value or -10 (rule 9.4.4.) Not shooting a steel is -20 points in penalties and the 5 that you left on the table. Not the best strategy for a stage win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lastcat Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, ChuckS said: Practiscore has all steel set as hit for scoring. If there is a miss (standing plate/popper in your example) the RO would just tap the M button to add one mike. The steel "A"s would decrement accordingly. If the RO is sure that the plate was not shot at, he would also add a procedural. BTW: The penalty for a miss on steel is 2x the scoring value or -10 (rule 9.4.4.) Not shooting a steel is -20 points in penalties and the 5 that you left on the table. Not the best strategy for a stage win. Thanks ChuckS. Don't recall seeing that Practiscore Format for M/NS on our Pads at our Ranges. Will have a closer look next weekend. Of the 4 Ranges I attend, it seems their Pads can have different formats, even though we find a way to make it work. And, like this China Virus bs, take the pad, leave the timer, take it all, leave the pad, no take the bucket and everything, take the bucket and leave the pad, no just leave everything . You guys been there yet? We have. Yes, -10 (double the highest value for a Target). Then the -10 for FTSA, ouch . It's always that little tiny popper behind those double stacked barrels @ 25yds and you are the first shooter . Edited April 13, 2021 by Lastcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18111811 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 just ran into this exact scenario this weekend, and the image of the tabletChuckS posted is exactly how it looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lastcat said: Thanks ChuckS. Don't recall seeing that Practiscore Format for M/NS on our Pads at our Ranges. Will have a closer look next weekend. Yes, -10 (double the highest value for a Target). Then the -10 for FTSA, ouch . It's always that little tiny popper behind those double stacked barrels @ 25yds and you are the first shooter . No problem. 2 things I always do when walking the stage is look behind big poppers for little poppers and make sure I know which are forward falling and which are rearward falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lastcat Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, ChuckS said: No problem. 2 things I always do when walking the stage is look behind big poppers for little poppers and make sure I know which are forward falling and which are rearward falling. Yep, me too. I actually will walk behind the barrels/walls all the way to the back and look to see hidden targets. Then, look at each target for un-taped holes, steel not painted, swingers and plates not set correctly. You guys have been there too, last squad didn't tape. Might have thought they were done and no other squad is following or they just high tailed out of there. Sometimes I can get on the best squads, everyone is taping, then there are the other days , "We need tapers!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, ChuckS said: Practiscore has all steel set as hit for scoring. If there is a miss (standing plate/popper in your example) the RO would just tap the M button to add one mike. The steel "A"s would decrement accordingly. If the RO is sure that the plate was not shot at, he would also add a procedural. BTW: The penalty for a miss on steel is 2x the scoring value or -10 (rule 9.4.4.) Not shooting a steel is -20 points in penalties and the 5 that you left on the table. Not the best strategy for a stage win. Not all versions look like that. If there is no M/NS on it and just a single box for steel, tap it and it takes away so it only counts fallen steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, broadside72 said: Not all versions look like that. If there is no M/NS on it and just a single box for steel, tap it and it takes away so it only counts fallen steel Yep. Ours are all like you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, broadside72 said: Not all versions look like that. If there is no M/NS on it and just a single box for steel, tap it and it takes away so it only counts fallen steel There is no such thing as "all versions". Either you have the current version or you don't. If you see a different screen layout then your tablets are years behind from the current version of the PractiScore app. God know what else is missing or behind in the outdated app version your range is stubbornly using. That may also include some rules specific to the sport. PS: the scoring layout for steel was changed several years ago when NPMs were added for steel (quite common in IPSC shotgun and generally with moving steel targets) Edited April 13, 2021 by euxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I think the answers have gotten a little off the path with Practiscore versions but the OP was asking if leaving a piece of steel standing was both a miss and a FTSA. He did answer his own question when he pointed out that as long as one round was fired at it, 1 M is scored. This is something I try to suggest to new shooters. Try maybe two shots and move on. Frustrating to see them spend 30 seconds and a mag of ammo for a small amount of points. And it’s not like they are close to winning the match anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, euxx said: There is no such thing as "all versions". Either you have the current version or you don't. If you see a different screen layout then your tablets are years behind from the current version of the PractiScore app. God know what else is missing or behind in the outdated app version your range is stubbornly using. That may also include some rules specific to the sport. PS: the scoring layout for steel was changed several years ago when NPMs were added for steel (quite common in IPSC shotgun and generally with moving steel targets) Well my club is not the only one that is out of date. But I suppose it also depends on the device being used. Are the 100% identical between supported devices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 26 minutes ago, broadside72 said: Well my club is not the only one that is out of date. But I suppose it also depends on the device being used. Are the 100% identical between supported devices? The "supported" devices are either Android supported by the Android app (including Amazon Fire's) or iOS devices supported by the iOS app.... Between two apps some screen layouts may look a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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