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Downloading mags, swelled Glock mags???


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Posted a bit ago about sudden issues with my gmr 13. I have run the piss out of it for a few years with zero failures and now have some crap going on. Checked the gun over throughly and see nothing there. 

 

You guys here helped me with pointing out glock mag bodies swell over time and cause issues due to us running these long extensions and stressing the mags. I thought it was BS but at this point it’s all I can make sense of.

 

I ran a new mag and have not had failures during the stage. But I have had a failure to chamber at make ready. I hope maybe my fault for not charging the handle and letting it rip but I’m not sure. I have the short stroke buffer so no bolt catch meaning it’s possible I just didn’t crank it and let it rip. 
 

Today I used another old mag body built with a new spring and used the Goliath XL spring in the standard Goliath extension as to get more spring pressure. I don’t think this helped at all and I had another round jump out of the mag and get pinched against the breech. Last week I ran the same setup and had no issues so I thought I was smart. I will ditch the old mags and use new but I was just trying to prove to myself the theory of swelled mag bodies isn’t a thing and it was lack of spring pressure.

 

Most guys are bitching at me to download the mags and I do download 1-2 rounds but perhaps there is an issue here I’m not aware of. I never downloaded more than 1-2 before  and didn’t have issues for years as I mentioned. So I’m back to buying into the swelled mag body theory. 
 

Any input is appreciated, thanks guys. 

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I kinda remember the last thread. Something that just came to me. It's a 13 so I assume you've had it a few years and have probably shot thousands of rounds through it. Could the mag catch inside the gun (if that's the correct name for it) be worn and not allowing the mags to seat firmly every time, or wiggle a little while in use? Or maybe the inside of the mag well at the top is worn just slightly to allow mag movement? Or a combination?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, egd5 said:

I kinda remember the last thread. Something that just came to me. It's a 13 so I assume you've had it a few years and have probably shot thousands of rounds through it. Could the mag catch inside the gun (if that's the correct name for it) be worn and not allowing the mags to seat firmly every time, or wiggle a little while in use? Or maybe the inside of the mag well at the top is worn just slightly to allow mag movement? Or a combination?

I had thought the same as well. I was trying to compare if the mag wiggles more than my other back up new gmr 13 and it does by a little. I just took the mag catch out last week to inspect it and clean. It’s alloy so I don’t see how it can wear against a Glock plastic lined mag but maybe it’s possible. The mag chute shows signs of wear but nothing bad or enough to change dimensions I don’t think. 
 

Something worn would make more sense to me for sure. 
 

It does have a few years of weekly match use. I didn’t keep record of round count but it’s got to be 30-40k.

Edited by brian45acp
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If you have another "new" 13 I'd try using it for a while, or at least the lower, and see if it presents the problem. If it doesn't then seems to me to be a safe bet to think it's your lower just maybe worn out. At least you could rule out the mags then, I think.🙂

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Yeah I know, but I’m in the commie state so wearing out a registered AW lower would make me cry. I don’t think this low round count would eat a lower. That and we hardly ever are doing reloading so the mag just sits there. I’ll ask Jp if they think a new mag catch would tighten up anything. 

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I honestly do not understand why so many PCC shooters go with these heavy mag extensions.  Some guns just cannot hold them.  The first round feeds and fires.  The second won't chamber because the weight and the recoil joggled the mag off the catch.  You have to smack it back in for it to work.  Even in a monster match I don't see a mag holding 51 or 57 rounds.  Why.

 

A long USPSA course is 32 rounds.  An ETS 40 round mag runs right out of the box and is reloadable with 40 rounds in it.  They are inexpensive and if anything ever goes you just send it back to ETS and they send you a new one.  I have three of them just for monster falling steel matches.  Even on a 72 round stage I've only needed to reload once.  I love their 17 round mags too.  I download to ten for SCSA matches.  They are IMO much better than Glock mags.

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1 hour ago, zzt said:

I honestly do not understand why so many PCC shooters go with these heavy mag extensions.  Some guns just cannot hold them.  The first round feeds and fires.  The second won't chamber because the weight and the recoil joggled the mag off the catch.  You have to smack it back in for it to work.  Even in a monster match I don't see a mag holding 51 or 57 rounds.  Why.

 

A long USPSA course is 32 rounds.  An ETS 40 round mag runs right out of the box and is reloadable with 40 rounds in it.  They are inexpensive and if anything ever goes you just send it back to ETS and they send you a new one.  I have three of them just for monster falling steel matches.  Even on a 72 round stage I've only needed to reload once.  I love their 17 round mags too.  I download to ten for SCSA matches.  They are IMO much better than Glock mags.

My mag doesn’t disengage and never has. I have seen ets fail and crack a few times so I never thought them as an option. 

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Well the idea of the magwell on the lower I don’t believe to be an issue. I have a brand new gmr-13 broken in with few hundred rounds and both my lowers are nearly identical in terms of how tight the mags fits. Both have some movement but nothing crazy so I believe it to be normal.

 

I just realized the spring I thought was the XL was actually not. I counted the coils and it’s 28 and not 34. So either Taylor mixed them up or I did. I’m pretty careful about that so I think it was a package mix up. This doesn’t really change anything though. 

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Is it just with the goliath mags that you have the problem? I have one but only use it for rare occasions. I sort of agree with ZZT in that They probably do put a little more stress on the mag catch and over time they may wear just a few thousands and be enough to cause intermittent problems. I do think they are worth having one or two though, just don't use them all the time. I have good luck with ETS mags too.

I just got some replacement springs for my +10 TF mag extensions and he sent 22 coil springs. FWIW.

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Posted (edited)

I think possibly the mags would wear out with the alloy mag catch. But jp is smart and beveled the bottom so I see nearly no wear on the mag notches. 
 

I am going to download them more and try new mags. I can’t find a darn thing wrong with the rifle so it’s got to be mags. 
 

I’ve always used the Taylor’s and didn’t have issues until now. 

Edited by brian45acp
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My experience with JP GMR-15 and the Glock mags has been that the mags don’t feed as well with the super long extensions, probably because 9mm is tapered. My best experiences were with Glock brand mags with +10 TTI extensions loaded to 40 and MBX steel mags 170s with 3 inch extensions loaded to 40.

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I changed the spring just recently once I started having issues. I did up the weight on it though and have 4 tungsten and 1 stainless. I will go back to 3 T and 1 S. I also switched to bore tech grease which is meant for bolts and slides. I was noticing my oil drying up and I figured maybe it was that so I went to the grease. Possibly it’s allowing bolt to slide more and I’m having bolt bounce? 
 

Short stroke kit has been in I think about 2 years now. Only issues I had were dialing in my load with a combination of buffer weights to where the O rings would last longer and not flatten or Frey. But it never jammed on me. 
 

I talked to another pcc shooter at this Saturday’s match and he is using the TTI also with good luck. I just hate the company so haven’t considered buying from them. 

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I was using weapon shield. If I oil it Sunday and check it next Friday before Saturday’s match the oil is gone. The stuff is too thin to stay put. It’s really bad in my carry gun and is gone in a matter of days.

 

I have not changed ammo. I have 2 loads that are good which is one being about 1050fps and the other 1150fps using a 124grn jhp. Same bullet I always used 

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I don't think it matters much, but I have used Ballistol for pretty much everything. Lately I've also gotten into airguns and reading the forums there they say Ballistol does not deteriorate rubber seals. So I'm guessing it's good for the rubber o-rings. My buffer system is always still lubricated whenever I take it out for cleaning, which isn't very often.🙂

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23 hours ago, egd5 said:

I don't think it matters much, but I have used Ballistol for pretty much everything. Lately I've also gotten into airguns and reading the forums there they say Ballistol does not deteriorate rubber seals. So I'm guessing it's good for the rubber o-rings. My buffer system is always still lubricated whenever I take it out for cleaning, which isn't very often.🙂

I love that stuff also. I use it as a cleaner but not as primary lube. It keeps things protected but breaks down carbon. Cleaners strip protection off the metal so you have to oil them after throughly. I found that out when I pulled my extractor from the bolt and saw surface rust. 

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Reduced buffer mass back to 3T and 2S. I think some where along this and I switched from that to 4T and 1S. I used new mags and downloaded 5 rounds in my oem glock mags with Taylor Goliath’s. Ran today’s match no issues at all. Let’s see if I can keep it like that. 

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On 3/28/2021 at 2:06 PM, zzt said:

I honestly do not understand why so many PCC shooters go with these heavy mag extensions.  Some guns just cannot hold them.  The first round feeds and fires.  The second won't chamber because the weight and the recoil joggled the mag off the catch.  You have to smack it back in for it to work.  Even in a monster match I don't see a mag holding 51 or 57 rounds.  Why.

 

A long USPSA course is 32 rounds.  An ETS 40 round mag runs right out of the box and is reloadable with 40 rounds in it.  They are inexpensive and if anything ever goes you just send it back to ETS and they send you a new one.  I have three of them just for monster falling steel matches.  Even on a 72 round stage I've only needed to reload once.  I love their 17 round mags too.  I download to ten for SCSA matches.  They are IMO much better than Glock mags.

I agree.  I can't get the Glock mags to run for crap.  I've never had a problem with ETS mags.  I also don't understand the reasoning that guys need to carry 50+ rounds in a magazine?  Are you missing that much that you need 50?  Most stages are 20-30 rounds.

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It's handy to have at least one goliath for those stages where there's things like stars, polish plate racks, and the other sadistic creations that designers come up with. At least when you shoot like I do anyway....

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Goliath’s are just well made and ets are crap. Too many of them crack when ejected that I’ve seen and heard about at the matches. Nobody good runs those mags and I call that a clue. 
But not needing 50 rounds is a valid point. Being able to have them and downloading makes more sense to me. So far so good on my recent changes. There obviously is some factor of mag bodies wearing out going on but I wish it was more obvious and measurable. 

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On 4/5/2021 at 10:50 AM, brian45acp said:

oo many of them crack when ejected that I’ve seen and heard about at the matches. Nobody good runs those mags and I call that a clue. 

 

Nonsense.  That is an old wives tale.  When have you ever seen a 40 round ETS mag ejected at a USPSA match?  Never is what I'd guess.  In fact, I've never seen anyone eject a mag from a PCC on any stage that was not a qualifier requiring a mandatory mag change.  Then everyone uses 17 round mags, partially filled.

 

The only time I've had to drop a 40 round ETS was at monster matches where each stage was 60-70 shots.  Even then, dropping an almost empty mag on stone didn't ever cause a scratch.  Buy a Goliath and download if you like, but don't spout nonsense.

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I've had mine for a couple of years+ and they are still fine. Although I could see them cracking if they hit a rock or something and the weather was cold, but....

But maybe those who have cracked them are the same people who have been told they could tear up a steel ball.😆

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/10/2021 at 8:40 PM, brian45acp said:

ETS is well known to crack. I almost never see them in a match for good reason. But I guess some people like clear mags lol. 

 

I'm kinda with you - I really hated the idea of trying an ETS mag. I was 100% sure they were 100% going to fail, and I am still just waiting for it to happen. But I got some because cheap 40s with no extra BS was too much for me to resist. I consider them disposable, and I check them constantly, clean them faithfully and I have to admit that I haven't had any issues. I also agree that the clear thing is kind of a gimmick, and I remember an old Shot Show video of Magpul saying they've never found a clear polymer they considered good enough. Anyway, I am pretty sure I still don't like them, but they are working. And yeah, I'm not a huge volume shooter. I shoot my PCC in a couple club matches a month and prior to primers vanishing I was practicing at least once a week. So I shoot them a fair amount, but not crazy. However, I only actually use a couple at a time so I'm rotating a little bit, but not like 10 mags in rotation. They each have several K on them without any drama. However, at the price, you could have 5 or 6 preloaded for the match and put a lot less stress on each individual mag.

 

Wish I could help with the real problem you're having but it sounds like you've been thorough.

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