CO/Production light question

[JBBoise]

5 hours ago, motosapiens said:

maybe

Have you told him you consider yourselves "buddies"?

 

[RJH]

1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

So was this thread needed?

Sure. Helped me remember i had an old light and sort out a couple of things.

 

The real question is, is your multiple douchey comments on many threads needed? I doubt it,  but douches gotta douche. So carry captain douche. Whoops I mean,  sgt douche 

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, JBBoise said:

Have you told him you consider yourselves "buddies"?

 

I told him he was my girlfriend until he starts shooting SS major again, but you can have the job if you want it, as long as you promise not to say anything bad about the scorpion.... you know how that goes, lol....

Edited March 26, 2021 by motosapiens

[rowdyb]

I will not be running a light or aiwb in either prod or co.

[BritinUSA]

They should just end CO and Production and bring back a variation of Modified, run it with irons and you can use a longer magazine, using an optic would reduce the length of magazine that will fit in the box. 

• Double/Action or striker fired only
• 9mm for Minor, .40+ for Major
• Frame mounted, or slide mounted optic and/or iron sights
• Gun must fit in the box with empty magazine inserted (slide parallel to longest edge of the box).
• No weight limits, as long as it fits in the box do what you want. 
• No IWB, this is a sport not tactical training (if you want to point a loaded gun at your genitals or carotid artery then do it someplace else).

Ditch Revolver, and L-10

 

This leaves us with Open, Limited, Modified, Single Stack

[outerlimits]

6 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

They should just end CO and Production and bring back a variation of Modified, run it with irons and you can use a longer magazine, using an optic would reduce the length of magazine that will fit in the box. 

• Double/Action or striker fired only
• 9mm for Minor, .40+ for Major
• Frame mounted, or slide mounted optic and/or iron sights
• Gun must fit in the box with empty magazine inserted (slide parallel to longest edge of the box).
• No weight limits, as long as it fits in the box do what you want. 
• No IWB, this is a sport not tactical training (if you want to point a loaded gun at your genitals or carotid artery then do it someplace else).

Ditch Revolver, and L-10

 

This leaves us with Open, Limited, Modified, Single Stack

great idea, but the Beard will never let that happen.  he likes 50 divisions so he can tout a classification in each.

[RJH]

11 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

They should just end CO and Production and bring back a variation of Modified, run it with irons and you can use a longer magazine, using an optic would reduce the length of magazine that will fit in the box. 

• Double/Action or striker fired only
• 9mm for Minor, .40+ for Major
• Frame mounted, or slide mounted optic and/or iron sights
• Gun must fit in the box with empty magazine inserted (slide parallel to longest edge of the box).
• No weight limits, as long as it fits in the box do what you want. 
• No IWB, this is a sport not tactical training (if you want to point a loaded gun at your genitals or carotid artery then do it someplace else).

Ditch Revolver, and L-10

 

This leaves us with Open, Limited, Modified, Single Stack

 

Sounds good to me.  I would let people use IWB if they wanted though, just cause I dont care

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

Sure. Helped me remember i had an old light and sort out a couple of things.

 

The real question is, is your multiple douchey comments on many threads needed? I doubt it,  but douches gotta douche. So carry captain douche. Whoops I mean,  sgt douche 

Nothing douchier than looking for affirmation for a pre-made decision

Edited March 27, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[RJH]

4 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

Nothing douchier than looking for affirmation instead of just doing your own thing

 

Not at all what i was doing.  Read the OP.  I was looking preferably for peoples experiences that actually tested it on the clock, though i did ask for opinions too.   Also just noticed your edit and my decision wasn't premade, B-rad suggestions reminded i had an old light.  So, you still win the douche contest.  Now don't go away mad, just go away

[ima45dv8]

That's enough, guys. 

[Southpaw]

5 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

They should just end CO and Production and bring back a variation of Modified, run it with irons and you can use a longer magazine, using an optic would reduce the length of magazine that will fit in the box. 

• Double/Action or striker fired only
• 9mm for Minor, .40+ for Major
• Frame mounted, or slide mounted optic and/or iron sights
• Gun must fit in the box with empty magazine inserted (slide parallel to longest edge of the box).
• No weight limits, as long as it fits in the box do what you want. 
• No IWB, this is a sport not tactical training (if you want to point a loaded gun at your genitals or carotid artery then do it someplace else).

Ditch Revolver, and L-10

 

This leaves us with Open, Limited, Modified, Single Stack

 

No offense, but that sounds awful.

[fireman1776]

On 3/26/2021 at 10:10 AM, MikeBurgess said:

If A going plastic and B starting from zero I would get a light. But I like the feel of nose heavy guns.

 

I will know more after the weekend, I just mounted a light with brass battery adapters (about 6oz total) on my G17 for CO and I really like how the gun feels in dry fire. 

Could you share info on the brass battery adapters please? 

[BritinUSA]

16 hours ago, Southpaw said:

No offense, but that sounds awful.

 

With all the changes to Production and Production Carry Optics neither division matches its original intent any more.

 

Basically they are now both Modified divisions; Adding the Major/Minor options allows the competitor even more flexibility, and the trade-offs between optics and magazine capacity might make for some interesting decisions/competitions. 

 

 

[C-Money]

On 3/27/2021 at 12:04 PM, fireman1776 said:

Could you share info on the brass battery adapters please? 

 

On 3/26/2021 at 11:10 AM, MikeBurgess said:

If A going plastic and B starting from zero I would get a light. But I like the feel of nose heavy guns.

 

I will know more after the weekend, I just mounted a light with brass battery adapters (about 6oz total) on my G17 for CO and I really like how the gun feels in dry fire. 

 

I second wanting to know about these brass battery adapters. I got a G34 for CO and it could use some fattening up, a brass battery in a cheap ass light would be a great way to experiment.

[C-Money]

17 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

 

With all the changes to Production and Production Carry Optics neither division matches its original intent any more.

 

Basically they are now both Modified divisions; Adding the Major/Minor options allows the competitor even more flexibility, and the trade-offs between optics and magazine capacity might make for some interesting decisions/competitions. 

 

 

 

I'll agree with you Producyion makes no sense anymore as everything is allowed and 10rd mags are kinda stupid when you can slap a dot on a gun and suddenly have 21 rd mags. When they started allowing anything at all as mods Production was doomed. 

 

Also, since starting to dabble in Limited I realize there is no reason to shoot Minor in a division with Major allowed as long as the mag capacity difference is less than 20%. It makes sense in SS because of all the reloads bit if you are telling me I get 20 rds Major and 23rds Minor then I'll go Major every time. With a 52oz gun and 200gr bullets it's not exactly hard to control Major, so why would I reduce my score for nothing?

[BritinUSA]

I think a standard IPSC/USPSA box would provide around 18 rounds in .40 and 23 in 9mm for iron-sights, and less with an optic.

I may be wrong on that, going from memory.

[C-Money]

6 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

I think a standard IPSC/USPSA box would provide around 18 rounds in .40 and 23 in 9mm for iron-sights, and less with an optic.

I may be wrong on that, going from memory.

 

Assuming no one shaved their optic down, right?

[BritinUSA]

Correct; And some guns the scope can be milled very deeply into the slide, so shaving it may not be required.

 

[SweetToof]

Division woulda/shoulda/coulda discussions aside, running a light on a plastic gun is without a doubt, an advantage over not running one on that same gun when it comes to recoil control. In the testing I've done, using the light produced noticeable reduction in muzzle rise compared to the same gun w/o light. This is with a CO G34. The dot travel in the window and the slowmo video of the gun cycling make this definitive and not subjective. This is with a TLR-1 with lead shot filling the cap. bring it from 4.2 to 5.8 oz. I have also done significant comparison of draw times and transitions and there is no difference whatsoever in times between a G34 with or without a light. I think anybody running a plastic framed gun is giving up an advantage that they should really consider having. 

 

I do not own a Shadow 2 or Tanfo, but I have spoken with a few very competent shooters that do. A shadow 2 is specifically designed to be front-heavy, which is one of the reasons it is such a popular choice amongst competitors. If you add a light to it, I'm told that the nose becomes way too front-heavy, and causes significant dipping of the muzzle upon the slide cycling forward. The light on a Shadow 2 also produces a much less effective recoil reduction, making the light a poor choice for that setup IMO.

 

I think all of this makes a lot of sense when you look at the numbers. Adding 5.8 oz to a 35oz glock raises it by 15.7% where adding the same weight to a 50oz Shadow 2 w/brass grips only adds 11.6%. The added weight is also going only where it is most effective for recoil control.

[MikeBurgess]

On 3/27/2021 at 9:04 AM, fireman1776 said:

Could you share info on the brass battery adapters please? 

I made a set of adapters on my lathe that fit a old Cmore battery to a CR123 size.  I shot a match wit the setup this weekend and I think it worked very well. the Glock with about 7oz hanging from the frame felt much better than without, and balanced much more like a steel framed gun, its still lighter but now it has that light nose heavy feel those guns have. 

 

I have a friend with a CNC lathe I think after the successful test I will see if he can make up some sets and sell them on his web site.

 

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

 

21 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

I think a standard IPSC/USPSA box would provide around 18 rounds in .40 and 23 in 9mm for iron-sights, and less with an optic.

I may be wrong on that, going from memory.

 

It'd be hard to find a reasonable gun to fit the box with a optic on it. So this division would probably just be 5" limited guns with 126mm mags. So why bother?

[MikeBurgess]

2 hours ago, SweetToof said:

Division woulda/shoulda/coulda discussions aside, running a light on a plastic gun is without a doubt, an advantage over not running one on that same gun when it comes to recoil control. In the testing I've done, using the light produced noticeable reduction in muzzle rise compared to the same gun w/o light. This is with a CO G34. The dot travel in the window and the slowmo video of the gun cycling make this definitive and not subjective. This is with a TLR-1 with lead shot filling the cap. bring it from 4.2 to 5.8 oz. I have also done significant comparison of draw times and transitions and there is no difference whatsoever in times between a G34 with or without a light. I think anybody running a plastic framed gun is giving up an advantage that they should really consider having. 

 

I do not own a Shadow 2 or Tanfo, but I have spoken with a few very competent shooters that do. A shadow 2 is specifically designed to be front-heavy, which is one of the reasons it is such a popular choice amongst competitors. If you add a light to it, I'm told that the nose becomes way too front-heavy, and causes significant dipping of the muzzle upon the slide cycling forward. The light on a Shadow 2 also produces a much less effective recoil reduction, making the light a poor choice for that setup IMO.

 

I think all of this makes a lot of sense when you look at the numbers. Adding 5.8 oz to a 35oz glock raises it by 15.7% where adding the same weight to a 50oz Shadow 2 w/brass grips only adds 11.6%. The added weight is also going only where it is most effective for recoil control.

I would say, for me, recoil control is not where it helps, guns recoil and with some practice return predictably, where the extra weight especially weight out front like a light helps is in stability. For me a nose heavy gun has a much calmer sight picture than one that is not, on dot guns the speed of the dots movement is  little slower and easier to predict. So hoser targets the gun weight doesn't matter much at all, but a 7yd head box the heavy nose gun lets the dot slide into the A and settle nicely.

 

[B_RAD]

People already shot heavy guns. People already shot light guns. 

 

The results at matches have zero to do with either. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by B_RAD

[dfwmiket]

The kicker for some of us is really finding a holster. As a southpaw, they are few and far between to start, let alone w/ light option.  Not planning to add one at this time. 

 

-Mike

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, dfwmiket said:

The kicker for some of us is really finding a holster. As a southpaw, they are few and far between to start, let alone w/ light option.  Not planning to add one at this time. 

 

-Mike

Yep,  I am a lefty too. So holster options are definitely limited and costly.  One of the main reasons I only want to do this once lol.