School me on buying an Open gun

[touji]

Having handled a lot of Open guns over the past couple of years, it's a good time for options. Pick a builder you feel you can have a good rapport with, because the journey doesn't just end after you buy it. These are the guys who are going to be handling repairs, maintenance, future mods, etc. 

 

It's also a great time for thumb rests as there are so many out there with different angles and lengths. I've got small hands and the TEVO has been the winner for me. 

 

When it comes to customizations with open 2011s, the builders generally have a recommended balance of slide weight, etc. so I would focus on trigger weight, trigger length, shielded safety / thumb shield, size/style/orientation of racker, and whether the gun is stroked or not. This is my suggestion.

[falconpilot]

I second the ideal of buying a used Open gun to start with. Buy a SV or Akai IMO. You can a low mile one on here often and save a ton of money. When you get the chance to shoot buddies open gun of different brand, never pass it up. I've owned Atlas, Akai, Cheely, CK arms, Freedom arms, STI, and several other brands...currently shooting a SV Infinity and will likely order a new one this year...but it's all personally preference really. Find one that you think is sharp gun, one that feels good in your hands, more importantly, one that runs, and  enjoy.

 

[Joe4d]

Way things are going, Open will be an oldfart dieing division like revolver.
Why spend 5k on a custom gun needing custom ammo when you can spend 1k on a homemade CO gun that shoots walmart special and have the same fun ?

[B_RAD]

22 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Way things are going, Open will be an oldfart dieing division like revolver.
Why spend 5k on a custom gun needing custom ammo when you can spend 1k on a homemade CO gun that shoots walmart special and have the same fun ?

But is it though?

[zzt]

35 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Way things are going, Open will be an oldfart dieing division like revolver.
Why spend 5k on a custom gun needing custom ammo when you can spend 1k on a homemade CO gun that shoots walmart special and have the same fun ?

 

Unlikely.  I am just finishing up a backup Open gun.  Why?  Because Open is waaaay more fun than CO.  Secondly, where are all the Walmart specials.  If I followed your advice I'd have nothing to shoot except pellet guns.  

[Joe4d]

I think it is,,, big draw of open is the optics and the mag capacity.  Big negative is the cost and special ammo.
Enter CO,,, off the shelf gun,,, home installed off the shelf optic,  Full mag plus of standard off the shelf 9mm,(assuming you can find a shelf with ammo).
Although IMO limited minor would have taken off as well.
Folks want to shoot basic guns and load to capacity with basic 9mm ammo. Asinine USPSA doesnt reach around behind them,, grab ears,,, pull really hard and figure this out.

[UpYoursPal]

Don't forget major scoring.  Some of us just love to run around with our space lasers and blast everything at mach 2 while making a ton of noise.  CO just doesn't scratch that same itch.

[CocoBolo]

Now to the real topic, if you have not shot open you don't really know what you want.  I started that way and bought a used Tanfo Gold and it was a great gun except it hurt my hand to shoot it.  I ditched it bought a used Briley (STI) for $1200(2007).  In the next couple of years I bought a few guns one was a worn out SVI, I had it accu-railed, then a couple of STI competitors.  I customized them aka modernized them.  I had a shorty built, and a 5" built by Chris Monolito (phillipines) both great guns. I really didn't know how much I loved shorty till I sold it about 8 years ago.  The Briley  I still shoot it for steel, had to replace the slide last year.   One of the Competitors new slide last year, 60-70k.  Point being no sense spending a lot of money till you are sure what you want, just get a good used gun and give it a go.  All the bedazzling won't make you any faster, but it will make you look cool. 

[d3ydx3]

Just an update... I did end up going the BUL SAS2 UR route with the polymer grip. For the cost of an Atlas I can get 2 BULs for the same price. I also ran BUL for Limited so my existing equipment investment carried over into open (holster, mags, pouches, parts, etc.). I’ll probably end up getting a steel grip fitted at some point, but so far with 1000 rounds on the gun and zero malfunctions. Fit is also tight. 

The other reason that I wanted to send out the update is I shot my first match in Open and seriously, there is no comparison between Open and CO. Shooting Major and going Warp Factor 10 is just TOO DAMN FUN. Shot the 18-04 classifier and got a 65% which I think for my first full serious year in the sport and first Open match isn’t horrible. I shot a few other stages and managed to get up there with most of the other B class open shooters. My biggest area for improvement is stage planning for Open and reloads. There were a couple of stages that I just didn’t have the confidence to not do a reload on a position exit and I suspect I lost a second or 2 here and there because of that and my transition slowing down. Both stages could’ve been shot with a single mag but that comes from the fact that I’ve been shooting Single Stack for the last few months. 

My load still isn’t fully dialed in. Dot doesn’t leave the window, but I know it can shoot flatter. Right now I’m using 7.0 grains of N350 @ 1.160 (that was the only 9 major powder I had) and 124 FMJs for 167 PF. There’s not enough gas pushing the comp, and I’ve got some pretty flat primers so I won’t be upping the load with N350. I’ve got some AA #7 coming in tomorrow and cannot wait to load up some of that... 

 

Minor load is the left and my major load is on the right to show the pressure signs. I have it on good word my current N350 load is around 50K to 55K PSI. 
 

Thanks again for the input guys.

Edited April 22, 2021 by pealandco

[NoSteel]

With a similar type comp and 2 poppies holes I have to run my WST / 124gr PD jhp’s in the high 170’s PF to keep the muzzle down.

[jstagn]

Are those primers really flat? Especially one on left? Thanks 

[EEH]

16 hours ago, pealandco said:

Just an update... I did end up going the BUL SAS2 UR route with the polymer grip. For the cost of an Atlas I can get 2 BULs for the same price. I also ran BUL for Limited so my existing equipment investment carried over into open (holster, mags, pouches, parts, etc.). I’ll probably end up getting a steel grip fitted at some point, but so far with 1000 rounds on the gun and zero malfunctions. Fit is also tight. 

The other reason that I wanted to send out the update is I shot my first match in Open and seriously, there is no comparison between Open and CO. Shooting Major and going Warp Factor 10 is just TOO DAMN FUN. Shot the 18-04 classifier and got a 65% which I think for my first full serious year in the sport and first Open match isn’t horrible. I shot a few other stages and managed to get up there with most of the other B class open shooters. My biggest area for improvement is stage planning for Open and reloads. There were a couple of stages that I just didn’t have the confidence to not do a reload on a position exit and I suspect I lost a second or 2 here and there because of that and my transition slowing down. Both stages could’ve been shot with a single mag but that comes from the fact that I’ve been shooting Single Stack for the last few months. 

My load still isn’t fully dialed in. Dot doesn’t leave the window, but I know it can shoot flatter. Right now I’m using 7.0 grains of N350 @ 1.160 (that was the only 9 major powder I had) and 124 FMJs for 167 PF. There’s not enough gas pushing the comp, and I’ve got some pretty flat primers so I won’t be upping the load with N350. I’ve got some AA #7 coming in tomorrow and cannot wait to load up some of that... 

 

Minor load is the left and my major load is on the right to show the pressure signs. I have it on good word my current N350 load is around 50K to 55K PSI. 
 

Thanks again for the input guys.

Where did you buy the Bul

[cnote]

23 minutes ago, jstagn said:

Are those primers really flat? Especially one on left? Thanks 

the one on the right is obviously the major load

[d3ydx3]

1 hour ago, EEH said:

Where did you buy the Bul

 

Chris Tilley had a couple in stock a few weeks ago. I believe he is sold out now, though.

[d3ydx3]

1 hour ago, jstagn said:

Are those primers really flat? Especially one on left? Thanks 

 

The one on the left is a minor load and the one on the right is a major load.

[d3ydx3]

Some AA #7 and BUL SAS 2 UR load data from my testing today. Could definitely feel the comp working around 9.6gr and up. My load going forward is probably going to be in the 9.6-9.8 range. AA #7 is a HUGE improvement over N350 for 9 Major. Mixed range brass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by pealandco

[d3ydx3]

Primers from the load data above for AA #7

 

2nd row is 9.2

3rd is 9.4

4th is 9.6

5th is 9.8

6th is 10.0

[d3ydx3]

Some video of me shooting AA#7 9.6 & 9.8gr loads compared against N350 7.0gr. Big difference in flatness of the gun and dot tracking. Not a fan of the cornmeal with AA#7, but it goes run the comp MUCH better than N350.

 

 

[zzt]

If you are seeing a lot of corn meal you have too much oil on the gun.

Edited April 27, 2021 by zzt

[d3ydx3]

4 minutes ago, zzt said:

If you are seeing a lot of corn meal you have too much oil on the gun.

 

I had seen some of your previous posts where you mentioned that. Haven't been out to the range since this weekend to run the gun a bit drier and see what the results are. Fingers crossed less oil fixes the cornmeal!

Edited April 27, 2021 by pealandco

[CocoBolo]

On 4/27/2021 at 2:29 PM, pealandco said:

 

I had seen some of your previous posts where you mentioned that. Haven't been out to the range since this weekend to run the gun a bit drier and see what the results are. Fingers crossed less oil fixes the cornmeal!

I've run lots of AA#7 in both 38SC and 9 maj.  My 9 maj load was 10gr w/124 MG JHP. @1.175 you can't make a short one.  I don't use oil I use Rigg grease, none the less AA#7 is dirty but it works well.  I switched to Silhouette in 9 maj 7.3gr, it shoots well, just have to have one load for summer and one for cooler temps 7.0gr, it like AA#7 is a bit dirty but it won't stop the slide like AA#7, smaller softer meal.   Just clean gun after each match you should be good.   There are a lot of HS6 fans, I tried it still have an 8# in the closet, right next to a 8# jug of AA#7.  

[EEH]

Coco, when I first started shooting open and 9 major, I read a lot of your post and liked all the information you put out. It helped me to not make a lot of mistakes and wast a lot of supplies although I do like hs6, it is a little dirty but I can handle that. Just send me the extra you have and I’ll burn it up for you. Thanks. 

[NoSteel]

On 4/22/2021 at 7:44 AM, NoSteel said:

With a similar type comp and 2 poppies holes I have to run my WST / 124gr PD jhp’s in the high 170’s PF to keep the muzzle down.

Can’t  believe I made this mistake here.  This load is using Winchester AutoComp.  Not WST..

Edited April 29, 2021 by NoSteel

[CocoBolo]

3 minutes ago, NoSteel said:

Can’t  believe I made this mistake here.  This load is using Winchester AutoComp.  

I found a use for AutoComp, I use it for my Steel Load, 5.8 grains with a 124 or 6.0 with a 115gr.  I found it a bit too harsh for 9 maj at 7.0gr.   I will say it flows like water thru the dillon powder measure and it seems to be clean burning and it is way cheaper than FeeFeeLaDoDo aka Vitavuori.

[CocoBolo]

1 hour ago, EEH said:

Coco, when I first started shooting open and 9 major, I read a lot of your post and liked all the information you put out. It helped me to not make a lot of mistakes and wast a lot of supplies although I do like hs6, it is a little dirty but I can handle that. Just send me the extra you have and I’ll burn it up for you. Thanks. 

When my Silhouette supply runs dry HS6 is the best alternative so it will probably get burned in a few months.