Ssanders224 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 14 minutes ago, motosapiens said: If it was a significant advantage, I would have expected to see lots of people using bolt-on frame weights in the divisions where they have been allowed. Instead, we saw everyone just buy different guns in prod and CO. Hanging 5-6oz off the front of gun is absolutely helpful in many cases. The lighter the gun, the more obvious the benefit. It's silly to say otherwise. Lights on plastic guns will be the norm pretty soon in Prod and CO. I'll definitely add one to the G34 I shoot in CO occasionally. Will the steel guns take part as well? Only time will tell. If I shot a shadow in Production, and could strap a 5.5oz "light" to the front of it, I'd probably do it. In the divisions that historically allowed them (Limited), bolt on weights aren't uncommon on lighter guns (Bob, Shane, etc..). They aren't popular on Limited 2011s because a lot of them are pushing 54-55+ oz these days anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 24 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said: Hanging 5-6oz off the front of gun is absolutely helpful in many cases. The lighter the gun, the more obvious the benefit. It's silly to say otherwise. Lights on plastic guns will be the norm pretty soon in Prod and CO. I'll definitely add one to the G34 I shoot in CO occasionally. Will the steel guns take part as well? Only time will tell. If I shot a shadow in Production, and could strap a 5.5oz "light" to the front of it, I'd probably do it. In the divisions that historically allowed them (Limited), bolt on weights aren't uncommon on lighter guns (Bob, Shane, etc..). They aren't popular on Limited 2011s because a lot of them are pushing 54-55+ oz these days anyway. what about the old limited guns, like the STI edge? why was no one bolting weights onto them if it's 'silly to say otherwise' ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngodwetrust21 Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said: Hanging 5-6oz off the front of gun is absolutely helpful in many cases. The lighter the gun, the more obvious the benefit. It's silly to say otherwise. Lights on plastic guns will be the norm pretty soon in Prod and CO. I'll definitely add one to the G34 I shoot in CO occasionally. Will the steel guns take part as well? Only time will tell. If I shot a shadow in Production, and could strap a 5.5oz "light" to the front of it, I'd probably do it. In the divisions that historically allowed them (Limited), bolt on weights aren't uncommon on lighter guns (Bob, Shane, etc..). They aren't popular on Limited 2011s because a lot of them are pushing 54-55+ oz these days anyway. Totally agree with all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, motosapiens said: what about the old limited guns, like the STI edge? why was no one bolting weights onto them if it's 'silly to say otherwise' ?? Why do you think Edge's were full dust cover guns in the first place? Why didn't everyone just shoot Eagles? Hint: Because most people felt like adding weight to that part of the gun was beneficial. The "old limited guns" evolved over time, and competitors and builders DID looks for ways to add non reciprocating weight to the front of the gun (tracker barrels, sight blocks, etc). CO and Prod divisions are inundated with lightweight/plastic guns that will 100% benefit from hanging a $70 5-6 oz "light" off the front of them. WMLs on guns in those divisions is absolutely going to become commonplace. Edited March 11, 2021 by Ssanders224 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, motosapiens said: what about the old limited guns, like the STI edge? why was no one bolting weights onto them if it's 'silly to say otherwise' ?? For a while the rules for limited didn't easily allow it (specific external modifications like weights and thumb rests if I recall... you'd have to find an old copy of the rule book but they used to require i think 500 guns to be built in that configuration available to the public before something was limited legal. That slowed innovation down some also the pf dropped from 175 to 165 that changed thinking as well. But I can recall one specific gun sps made I think called the pelican that sorta looked like an edge with a weight/chin at the front of the dust cover that maybe came out in the mid 2000s(?) where that was essentially tried but didn't catch on. Link below... https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Iaw2jjlnTwo/UG3vyHaSfWI/AAAAAAAAS84/yvII86WpQo8/s1600/Pelicano.jpg Shred mentioned it in this thread... Edited March 11, 2021 by caspian guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Ssanders224 said: CO and Prod divisions are inundated with lightweight/plastic guns that will 100% benefit from hanging a $70 5-6 oz "light" off the front of them. WMLs on guns in those divisions is absolutely going to become commonplace. I agree that traditional non-race guns will probably benefit from a little extra weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 22 hours ago, Ssanders224 said: It's a worthwhile consideration. It may be outlined somewhere and I just haven't read it, but I haven't seen much on how or when "functional" is going to be determined. Maybe it's up to MD's, like checking mag lengths? If I am checked at some point, and my light is not functional (but I know it was prior), what are the repercussions? I can tell you shooting Limited with a light full of lead prior to this rule change I was asked by a RO on a stage once if my light functioned. When I said no, he did not check and took my word for it. It's probably also worth noting that I only shot one major with that gun. I would not be surprised to get spot checked at matches. It'd be best if they spot check you before you shoot their stage. It'd be a dick move to check at ULSC. Now, as you said it could fail at any time so they can't prove you shot any of your previous stages with it not functioning. But, I can see them saying you need to fix it or you're getting bumped to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I would not be surprised to get spot checked at matches. It'd be best if they spot check you before you shoot their stage. It'd be a dick move to check at ULSC. Now, as you said it could fail at any time so they can't prove you shot any of your previous stages with it not functioning. But, I can see them saying you need to fix it or you're getting bumped to open. Yea. I'd imagine it will spell out about like you described. Similar to 5.2.5.2. Ie, your light can be "checked" at any time, but penalties are not retroactive. So if it's like 5.2.5.2, checking at ULSC is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I cant wait for the guy to show up at Chrono with a light on his Production gun, and it doesn't fit in the box............. IMO, these recent rule changes are the dumbest thing I've ever seen. And no one can give you a logical explanation why it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, ngodwetrust21 said: Thanks for the link! I am interested in this point you bring up as well. If you were shooting CO and your dot went out, they wouldn’t bump you to open. I don’t see how it is reasonable if your WML stops working at some point that there would be any negative repercussions. Maybe the battery went out or maybe the light just broke. Don’t see why it should matter or have any negative outcome on your match. per Troy on FB light must be functional, fix or shoot open. no word on if checked at end of stage does stage score count Edited March 11, 2021 by MikeBurgess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degnan Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 NROI just posted an article addressing some questions about the rule changes: https://nroi.org/rules-qa/flashlights-magnets-and-hip-bones/ "And, notably, there are no requirements for what type of light it is, or how it’s constructed, it simply has to make light. Will this be gamed?" LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Correct me if I am wrong. In production and carry optics. There is still a weight limit and gun must fit in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, AHI said: Correct me if I am wrong. In production and carry optics. There is still a weight limit and gun must fit in the box. There is. 59oz. You can add a lot of "lights" to a lot of guns before you'll get there. As for the box, even an X300 doesn't extend past the muzzle of a G34, so it will take an odd pistol/light combo to cause fitment issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheshaw1 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 So with WMLs legal, how long before we realize that likely none with hold up to uspsa and everyone will be carrying around 5 lights to every match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Intheshaw1 said: So with WMLs legal, how long before we realize that likely none with hold up to uspsa and everyone will be carrying around 5 lights to every match? It will be interesting to see what happens. There will undoubtedly be failures, and threads here’s beating the “WML durability” drum. But they aren’t finicky red dots, and don’t see a ton of shock or force when mounted to a flexy plastic frame (as compared to a dot riding a steel slide). I have a couple of WMLs that have seen a lot of shooting and been knocked around a fair bit, and haven’t had any failures. Quality WMLs tend to be pretty durable, generally speaking. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degnan Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) Weapon light manufactures are going to see a sharp spike in warranty returns.... I think three lights would be all you need. One for practice and level 1 matches. Two working lights for level 2 and above. Edited March 13, 2021 by Degnan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessiveshooter Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 If you want an X300 for the weight, get a knockoff for $35 from aliexpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakerjd Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 On 3/11/2021 at 3:45 PM, UFO said: I cant wait for the guy to show up at Chrono with a light on his Production gun, and it doesn't fit in the box............. IMO, these recent rule changes are the dumbest thing I've ever seen. And no one can give you a logical explanation why it was done. Why? I for one think it was the best thing USPSA has done rule wise in a LONG time. For one thing in SS the entire idea for the division was to give the original guns of USPSA a place to still be competitive yet they forced you to push everything back behind the hip bone? Why? In the early days of USPSA guys were running cross draw holsters and other crazy things. So allowing all divisions to mount holster/mag pouches anywhere is 100% a good change. Allowing WMLs..... it isnt going to change the outcome of match. But it will allow the people who shoot with their 3 gun rig the ability to use the same setup or the tactical timmy to use theirs. That's positive because it brings more shooters to matches. I see no issues here at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessiveshooter Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 My <$30 X300 from Aliexpress showed up yesterday. I haven't handled the real deal, but everything about this item looks top quality. And yes, it works, very well. I made the mistake of looking right at it and it temporarily blinded me. You could buy two of these to have one as a backup. I don't expect to have any issues with mine though, long term reviews of these knockoffs say that they continue to hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18111811 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Looks like LOK Grips is developing an all brass weight light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russty Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Yes! My pitiful shooting skills (high C in Production) need that! Buying skill, baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngodwetrust21 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 1:50 PM, obsessiveshooter said: My <$30 X300 from Aliexpress showed up yesterday. I haven't handled the real deal, but everything about this item looks top quality. And yes, it works, very well. I made the mistake of looking right at it and it temporarily blinded me. You could buy two of these to have one as a backup. I don't expect to have any issues with mine though, long term reviews of these knockoffs say that they continue to hold up. This is exactly what I ended up doing. For a canik as well. How long did it take you to get the order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degnan Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 hours ago, 18111811 said: Looks like LOK Grips is developing an all brass weight light The tough part is there will be no compatible holsters. If they mirror the shape of a popular weapon light then they will have holster compatibility right out of the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessiveshooter Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, ngodwetrust21 said: This is exactly what I ended up doing. For a canik as well. How long did it take you to get the order? Hi, it was about 3.5 weeks. Typical of Aliexpress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rb43 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Will the Shadow 2 fit in the box with the X300? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now