Reducing recoil by using a lightweight bolt carrier group

[Kokeman]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:40 AM, Steve in Allentown PA said:

If it wouldn't be a bother.  No such thing as too much information.

Finally talked to my son. Anderson upper and lower. Faxton 14.5" pencil barrel with a cheap comp pined and welded.(3 side slots and 2 vertical holes) Adjustable gas block, Brownells light weight BCG. Round aluminum  handguard.(Ar 15 free float handguard 15 inch TUBE | Ar15 handguard AR15 223 5.56 ) BMSMIL stock ( BMSMIL - BATTLELINK Minimalist MILSPEC Stock - Arm or Ally ) It is a light gun with light recoil. He wanted to start 2 gun matches with it but with ammo now he will have to wait.

[Steve in Allentown PA]

Thanks for following up with the information.

 

It seems everyone is conserving their ammo supply given the current situation.

 

I've decided to take a small step by replacing the standard GI gas key on a rifle with an adjustable gas key just to see the effect.  I'm going to start a new thread for just this one thing.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Steve in Allentown PA

[Steve in Allentown PA]

An update.

 

I called Jeff at Rubber City Armory and bought one of his steel lightweight BCGs.  I'm experimenting with it in another rifle and have been favorably impressed.

 

What I'm working on now is figuring out a way to glue a 1" thick Limbsaver recoil pad to the existing pad that came with the  FAB stock. 

 

Here's a pic of the FAB stock and pad.  The FAB pad will not fit a Magpul stock, is relatively thin, and has no "give" to it.  My thought was to grind it down so that it's flat across the entire surface and then join the plastic backing plate of the Limbsaver to it.  Are there any adhesives experts out there who can tell me which glue/epoxy will permanently join the plastic  backing plate of the Limbsaver to the rubber surface of the FAB pad?

 

[mpeltier]

why glue it? Its just plastic/rubber. Screw the limb saver on like it was designed. Just be mindful of the buffer tube and use a shorter screw if needed in that location.

[Steve in Allentown PA]

On 4/10/2021 at 11:53 AM, mpeltier said:

why glue it? Its just plastic/rubber. Screw the limb saver on like it was designed. Just be mindful of the buffer tube and use a shorter screw if needed in that location.

Here's why I can't just screw on another pad.  There's nothing to screw into.

 

 

The OEM butt pad is secured to a dovetail grooved plastic backing that slides into place on the buttstock and is locked in place.  I've already put the belt sander to work to grind the face of the pad perfectly flat.  Now I need to find the right glue to join the plastic backing of the new pad to the now flat rubber face of the OEM pad.

 

[mpeltier]

OK, I see. I didn't realize how thin the original pad will be where its dovetailed. I thought it might be thick enough to screw too. Never owned a FAB stock.

[fbzero]

On 3/12/2021 at 11:27 AM, Kokeman said:

Finally talked to my son. Anderson upper and lower. Faxton 14.5" pencil barrel with a cheap comp pined and welded.(3 side slots and 2 vertical holes) Adjustable gas block, Brownells light weight BCG. Round aluminum  handguard.(Ar 15 free float handguard 15 inch TUBE | Ar15 handguard AR15 223 5.56 ) BMSMIL stock ( BMSMIL - BATTLELINK Minimalist MILSPEC Stock - Arm or Ally ) It is a light gun with light recoil. He wanted to start 2 gun matches with it but with ammo now he will have to wait.

I have two 3gun rifles, but one of them is very similar to your son's setup.  Biggest difference is that I went with the gunner profile with the pinned/welded comp.  I want to say that it came in just over 6lb with the 1-4x optic on it.  When I was building it and talking to some other local 3gunners, I had several try to tell me that I'd never use it due to recoil compared to my other rifle.  My other rifle was probably closer to 9lb with a Stretch 16, Razor 1-6x, SJC Titan, etc.

At the end of the day, the heavier rifle does recoil slightly less and is more accurate at longer range.  The lighter one shoots plenty soft, is accurate enough for the sport, and feels much more mobile on a fast stage.  Most of the matches close to me don't go past 200y...guess which one gets used more? 

[Kokeman]

2 hours ago, fbzero said:

I have two 3gun rifles, but one of them is very similar to your son's setup.  Biggest difference is that I went with the gunner profile with the pinned/welded comp.  I want to say that it came in just over 6lb with the 1-4x optic on it.  When I was building it and talking to some other local 3gunners, I had several try to tell me that I'd never use it due to recoil compared to my other rifle.  My other rifle was probably closer to 9lb with a Stretch 16, Razor 1-6x, SJC Titan, etc.

At the end of the day, the heavier rifle does recoil slightly less and is more accurate at longer range.  The lighter one shoots plenty soft, is accurate enough for the sport, and feels much more mobile on a fast stage.  Most of the matches close to me don't go past 200y...guess which one gets used more? 

Hey Brandon, Ben built that gun to shoot down at Sparta 2 gun. He will start up when ammo comes more available. He's not using mine anymore. He already uses to much of my 9mm.

[fbzero]

On 4/16/2021 at 6:43 PM, Kokeman said:

Hey Brandon, Ben built that gun to shoot down at Sparta 2 gun. He will start up when ammo comes more available. He's not using mine anymore. He already uses to much of my 9mm.

Oh, hey Bob, didn't pay attention to where you were from or realize who I was talking to when I posted that lol!  Hopefully the ammo situation won't be like this much longer...getting frustrating.  Remington started manufacturing ammo again just recently I believe, so maybe that'll help some...

[K-Tex]

On 3/8/2021 at 4:23 PM, Steve in Allentown PA said:

Snausages, thanks for the info.  The Brownells LW BCG is certainly easier on the wallet.  I wonder who makes their BCGs - RBC (Rubber City Armory)? 

I've used faxon, rca, brownells with great success in conjunction with jp lomass rifle buffer, springco spring and various adjustable gb at rifle length and mid gas systems.   With the rifle buffer you're stuck with a rifle buffer tube.   The advantage of the jp scrs is it has a spacer for a2 buffer tubes with it.   I think the AR15 comes only in 1 option where as AR10 has standard and heavy configurations.   The AR15 jp scrs is spring weight adjustable (5 pack).   If using a carbine tube Odin has an adjustable weight buffer in lite and heavy adjustability.   The springco might be the yellow spring?   SLR and Odin would be my pics for gb.   NiB/NP3, chrome and nitride will be better than phosphate.

[Steve in Allentown PA]

THE CONCLUSION

 

I finally had enough of researching every adhesive known to man and grabbed a tube of E6000.  I figured in the event of the worst case scenario (things didn't stick together) I could remove it easier than anything else.  I smeared a layer of the stuff on the plastic plate of the Limbsaver and on the rubber surface of the OEM pad.  Then I clamped them together and left the assembly alone for three full days at the end of which I set about shaping the Limbsaver to match the outline of the OEM pad using a bench belt sander.  I didn't do a terrible job and comfort myself knowing that there was no good way to attach the assembly to my Miles Gilbert Recoil Pad Installation Fixture.

 

Bottom line.  The E6000 worked.  The Limbsaver is very soft and pliable.  Launching 12oz projectiles no longer feels like a 3" Magnum 12 gauge.

 

Here's a pic showing how it turned out.  You can see the glue line between the plastic plate of the Limbsaver and the rubber of the OEM pad.  I may get after that with some sandpaper.  The fit between the two is actually very close.  The glue is just what slopped over onto the exterior of the OEM pad.  The glue has been put to the test over the ensuing months and shows no sign of letting go.

 

 

Many thanks to everyone who offered their suggestions.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Steve in Allentown PA