pjb45 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Eric802 said: Veering off-topic here, but SS109 and M855 are the same. SS109 was, IIRC, the NATO designation for the projectile that, when it was adopted by the US, became M855. The round was designed to more reliably penetrate Soviet helmets at longer distances (600+ yards) out of belt-fed MG's. M855 will penetrate a radiator just fine. It's not armor piercing, and at short distances regular M193 will actually penetrate better because of its higher MV. GTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Flea said: Someone said the bullet would stick to a magnet not because the bullet has steel in it, but because the steel case is causing the bullet to stick. Not been my experience ... However: If in doubt, PULL a bullet and check it alone, separate from the case. If it sticks to a magnet, you got a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 I spoke to Wolf and they said the jacket of the 9mm 115g bullet is a steel and lead mixture (bimetal), but the projectile doesn't have a steel core. Rule 5.5.3 says the below. So that round isn't steel core nor is it a steel jacketed projectile (it's steel and lead). Can it still be used in a match or it's a no-go? Thanks Metal piercing, steel core, incendiary, and/or tracer ammunition, as well as ammunition loaded with steel jacketed projectiles is prohibited at USPSA matches. Steel case ammunition is allowed, provided the projectile does not stick to a magnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Flea said: I spoke to Wolf and they said the jacket of the 9mm 115g bullet is a steel and lead mixture (bimetal), but the projectile doesn't have a steel core. Rule 5.5.3 says the below. So that round isn't steel core nor is it a steel jacketed projectile (it's steel and lead). Can it still be used in a match or it's a no-go? Thanks Metal piercing, steel core, incendiary, and/or tracer ammunition, as well as ammunition loaded with steel jacketed projectiles is prohibited at USPSA matches. Steel case ammunition is allowed, provided the projectile does not stick to a magnet. Answered in your own posting, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regor Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Flea said: I spoke to Wolf and they said the jacket of the 9mm 115g bullet is a steel and lead mixture (bimetal), but the projectile doesn't have a steel core. Rule 5.5.3 says the below. So that round isn't steel core nor is it a steel jacketed projectile (it's steel and lead). Can it still be used in a match or it's a no-go? Thanks Metal piercing, steel core, incendiary, and/or tracer ammunition, as well as ammunition loaded with steel jacketed projectiles is prohibited at USPSA matches. Steel case ammunition is allowed, provided the projectile does not stick to a magnet. You should ask your match director if it is okay or just show up and shoot with it. The Wolf bullets have a steel jacket that is then plated with copper, so it does have steel jacket and is technically not allowed, but you can find someone shooting it at just about every local match I've ever shot. Just leave it at home for L2/L3 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 How about using any questionable ammo on your own steel targets that you paid for when you practice? Use the correct ammo for matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Flea said: I spoke to Wolf and they said the jacket of the 9mm 115g bullet is a steel and lead mixture (bimetal), but the projectile doesn't have a steel core. Rule 5.5.3 says the below. So that round isn't steel core nor is it a steel jacketed projectile (it's steel and lead). Can it still be used in a match or it's a no-go? Thanks Metal piercing, steel core, incendiary, and/or tracer ammunition, as well as ammunition loaded with steel jacketed projectiles is prohibited at USPSA matches. Steel case ammunition is allowed, provided the projectile does not stick to a magnet. That's steel jacketed ammo. The core is lead. This is the ammo specifically banned in 5.5.3 2 hours ago, regor said: You should ask your match director if it is okay or just show up and shoot with it. The Wolf bullets have a steel jacket that is then plated with copper, so it does have steel jacket and is technically not allowed, but you can find someone shooting it at just about every local match I've ever shot. Just leave it at home for L2/L3 matches. If I find you shooting steel jacketed ammo at my match, it's a DQ and a permanent invite to not come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I would like to see pictures of all these targets that were destroyed by steel jacket ammo--especially pistol ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 https://youtu.be/F28NK5mhLos Go to about the 4 minute mark for the actual content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 42 minutes ago, HCH said: I would like to see pictures of all these targets that were destroyed by steel jacket ammo--especially pistol ammo. Steel jacket pistol ammo is a greater ricochet hazard than lead or copper jacketed. It doesn't flatten out the same, and can come back towards the squad in one piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, PatJones said: Steel jacket pistol ammo is a greater ricochet hazard than lead or copper jacketed. It doesn't flatten out the same, and can come back towards the squad in one piece. It was only outlawed in USPSA in 2019. Why was the change made so late? (Not trying to be a smartass... it just seems odd that after 40 years USPSA would decide to outlaw steel jacket ammo). I've seen a lot of it shot at matches, and never seen it cause more ricochets, frags, or blood than any other ammo. I HAVE seen mild steel targets that were dimpled from high velocity throw stuff back at the squad--thats not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Flea said: Someone said the bullet would stick to a magnet not because the bullet has steel in it, but because the steel case is causing the bullet to stick. Jesus Crimney, just stick a magnet to them and find out for yourself. BTW, that's another line of BS you were fed. A copper jacketed, lead core bullet is non-magnetic. It doesn't become magnetic just because it's partly inside a steel case. Edited March 10, 2021 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Flea said: I spoke to Wolf and they said the jacket of the 9mm 115g bullet is a steel and lead mixture (bimetal), but the projectile doesn't have a steel core. Rule 5.5.3 says the below. So that round isn't steel core nor is it a steel jacketed projectile (it's steel and lead). Can it still be used in a match or it's a no-go? Thanks Metal piercing, steel core, incendiary, and/or tracer ammunition, as well as ammunition loaded with steel jacketed projectiles is prohibited at USPSA matches. Steel case ammunition is allowed, provided the projectile does not stick to a magnet. There is no such thing as a steel and lead mixture. You were fed a line of bulls#!t, and I don't care who told you that. The jacket on cheap Russian-made ammo (like steel cased Wolf and Tula) is STEEL. You CANNOT use that is USPSA matches. Period. Edited March 10, 2021 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Right, they could call it "tri metal" with copper plated steel jacket and lead core. Note: Steel CORE pistol bullets are not legal, that is in the official government definition of "armor piercing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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