rooster mcbee Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I was out chronographing some loads and zeroing my 929 this afternoon. I fired 40 flawless shots. Then, I loaded a new moon to do some training. The 1st bullet fired, then all I got was click, click, click. I opened the cylinder and looked at the primers, not a mark on them. I loaded a new moon and the same thing happened, 1st round fired then nothing but clicks. I turned the strain screw a half turn in, but nothing changed. I loaded another moon and ran quickly through the cylinder. 3 rounds fired and 5 didn't, but on the last click, the trigger failed to return forward. I've tried to push it forward, but it's stuck. I can open the cylinder, and the trigger will pull back to the trigger stop, but it still wont go forward. The gun has an Apex hammer and a Miculek spring kit, although I believe I used the factory rebound spring because I didn't like the slow trigger return. I haven't taken it apart yet, but I'm obviously going to have to. What do you think I should be looking for? Thank you, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, rooster mcbee said: What do you think I should be looking for? Broken parts? (I'm not a gunsmith) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I'm curious to see what you find is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokeewind Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) I have seen the safety bar catch on the bottom part of the hammer when the trigger tries to reset, preventing the trigger from returning forward. The safety bar might catch on the frame just a bit below the firing pin hole. I think both cases are caused by the fit between the ramp on the rebound slide and the rebound pad on the hammer being "tighter" than factory stock. With the side plate off you might be able to see the situation I'm talking about. Put the safety bar in place and look at the tip of the safety bar where it fits between the frame and the hammer when the hammer is down. Apex warns that some fitting may be required when installing their hammers. Let us know what you actually find, please. Edited February 23, 2021 by Cherokeewind added info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Could be a broken trigger pivot pin. When the trigger or hammer pivot pin breaks, the gun acts weird. Sometimes working, sometimes not. For the hammer block, its a good idea to radius or chamfer both sides of the top of the flag, front and back. That keeps it from catching on the hammer or frame as it returns upward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) My gun doesn't have a flag. Is that a problem? . Edited February 23, 2021 by ysrracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, ysrracer said: My gun doesn't have a flag. Is that a problem? . Na, it just means you haven't surrendered to the Dark Side, aka Open! Agree with Toolguy. Take your grips off, back off the strain screw and remove the mainspring. Then cycle, all will probably work. Then take off the side plate. If it's a broken stud you will see it, remember to use the handle of the hammer, or screw driver, to whack the grip frame to pop the side plate loose. If you do have a stud broken, might want to try somewhere other than S&W, unless it's still under warranty. There are several Revolver Smith's who will do it a lot cheaper & faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Check for safety bar placement, then broken hammer or trigger pivot pin, and broken firing pin or firing pin spring... My 627 was purchased in 1997 and has never failed me yet..... Let us know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokeewind Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 For diagnosis only, assemble the revolver without the safety bar, if everything works properly with the bar absent that's a good indication that the bar is binding/hitting the hammer. Don't leave the safety bar out permanently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 In all my competition revolvers I have removed the flag to eliminate the possibility of it hanging up. In my carry revolvers I have worked on the flag like Toolguy suggested. Myself I see no need for the flag in a competition revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokeewind Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Some of the hammer block safety blocks that I have seen need a bit of TLC to remove sharp edges and burrs from part which is obviously stamped, leaving rough edges most of the time. With the Apex hammers, it's sometimes not enough to chamfer the edges of the "flag". The lower part of the hammer "face" needs to be beveled a bit to provide clearance for the flag to clear when the trigger resets. I suspect that this is what Apex is referring to when they mention that "some fitting may be required". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 18 hours ago, Cherokeewind said: For diagnosis only, assemble the revolver without the safety bar, if everything works properly with the bar absent that's a good indication that the bar is binding/hitting the hammer. Don't leave the safety bar out permanently! Why not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster mcbee Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 Well, it turns out that the hand spring fell out of the trigger and jammed between the hammer and trigger. I put a little more tension on the spring and put everything back together. I'll take it out tomorrow and run some rounds through it. Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 9 hours ago, revoman said: Why not If you drop your revolver on the hammer hard enough to break the hammer pivot, it's the only thing preventing a boom. They do not affect trigger pull as it is gravity pulling them down when you are operating the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchapman Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, PatJones said: If you drop your revolver on the hammer hard enough to break the hammer pivot, it's the only thing preventing a boom. They do not affect trigger pull as it is gravity pulling them down when you are operating the trigger. And if you don't have a hammer on the gun like a lot of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Would this not be the same as people pinning the grip safety on a SS. All my competition revolvers are Carmonized so I do not have any hammer spurs or parts of the hammer that sticks out past the frame. I remove the flag so it will not become an issue during a match. In my carry revolvers I only polish the insides as if I ever have to use it which I hope I never do. I do not want some anti gun lawyer saying that I specifically worked on the trigger to make the revolver more deadly and that I did it with intention. One of my revolvers has been that way since 1997 and it has been dropped and no boom maybe I am just lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Mine are caramelized too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Had Jimmy Clark do an action job on my M29, decade ago, and it came back without the Flag. I didn't realize that was normal process for a competition action job. Called him and he explained, but also noted it should've been sent back to me. Which he did. Since I don't ride horses anymore, the stirrup dropping on a hammer was a big reason for carrying 5 in Peacemakers, I really doubt I'd ever have an issue. BUT on my EDC's I keep them in. I'd like to think it "could" make a difference in a competition gun as I'm yanking the trigger just sooooo faaaaaast. But alas I'm not Jerry and it probably wouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokeewind Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 On 2/24/2021 at 8:21 PM, rooster mcbee said: Well, it turns out that the hand spring fell out of the trigger and jammed between the hammer and trigger. I put a little more tension on the spring and put everything back together. I'll take it out tomorrow and run some rounds through it. Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. Thanks for posting the actual cause of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster mcbee Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 Here's what happened! I have everything put back together, but I'm bothered by why it dislodged in the first place. When I re-installed the spring and hooked the long leg over the pin on the hand, the coiled part of the spring sort of twisted or rolled on it's side a little instead of staying straight up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 hours ago, rooster mcbee said: Here's what happened! I have everything put back together, but I'm bothered by why it dislodged in the first place. When I re-installed the spring and hooked the long leg over the pin on the hand, the coiled part of the spring sort of twisted or rolled on it's side a little instead of staying straight up and down. I am pretty sure that spring does not go there. You should not even be able to see it if installed correctly. Should be inside the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokeewind Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 hour ago, revoman said: I am pretty sure that spring does not go there. You should not even be able to see it if installed correctly. Should be inside the trigger. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Yes the hand spring is a bit of a pain to install and it goes in that channel in the top of the trigger. Kind of a balancing act of holding the spring and putting in the hand. The smaller post on the hand is what one leg of the spring presses against. Note you can use the base of the mainspring to push on the hand spring, then finish pushing the hand in. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/smith-wesson/revolvers-sw/625-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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