M&P 15-22 Trigger

[mchapman]

With some renewed interest in using this gun for steel, what trigger would you guys recommend be used in the gun to get a light trigger pull and still hit hard enough for reliable ignition with 22 ammo? And just what would be the Pros and Cons of a single stage over a 2 stage?

[dapribek]

I think for speed shooting a single stage trigger would be the ticket. 

[mchapman]

52 minutes ago, dapribek said:

I think for speed shooting a single stage trigger would be the ticket. 

I think I tend to agree, but which single stage trigger? I tried a RA about 2 years ago and I must have gotten a bad one, it wouldn't reset or fire so I sent it back and just replaced the trigger spring in the original and kept the hammer spring the same. It's better but not great.

[Gregg K]

I'm using a Geissele SD-3G. Several others are using it as well. It has a full power hammer spring.

[mchapman]

19 hours ago, Gregg K said:

I'm using a Geissele SD-3G. Several others are using it as well. It has a full power hammer spring.

The Super Dynamic 3 Gun or the Super 3 Gun? Not sure of the differences. Opps just seen flat vs curved.

Edited February 15, 2021 by mchapman

[bigdawgbeav]

I went with a drop-in 3.5# CMC trigger.  Works great.  Just make sure to get the 15-22 pins as standard AR pins are too small, I believe, for the receiver.

[warpspeed]

I use a drop in Timney - no issues at all. Several of the guys I shoot with use a Hiperfire.

 

Everyone is using the CMC pins 

 

 

[hornetx40]

I installed a HiperFire  Competition trigger into mine and my wife's M&P 15-22's over 8 years ago. Put the heaviest hammer spring and you will get just under 2 lb. triggers that are completely reliable.  Since they came out with the eclipse buy it. I installed it in a PCC and it is even better. They back their product and they support the sport. You won't regret it ever. Quality is worth a little extra. Buy  a set of anti rotation pins from KNS Precision and the pins won't move

[Hoops]

On 2/14/2021 at 6:24 PM, mchapman said:

The Super Dynamic 3 Gun or the Super 3 Gun? Not sure of the differences. Opps just seen flat vs curved.

I will vouch for the Geiselle SG-3G in the 15-22.   I went thru several triggers looking for a even and HARD hit on firing pin.  This is it.   We also ordered their Match set springs and used the light spring for the trigger only.  This will give you a 2 lb trigger with the hard hitting hammer spring.  Good to go.

[mchapman]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

I will vouch for the Geiselle SG-3G in the 15-22.   I went thru several triggers looking for a even and HARD hit on firing pin.  This is it.   We also ordered their Match set springs and used the light spring for the trigger only.  This will give you a 2 lb trigger with the hard hitting hammer spring.  Good to go.

Did you try the CMC? I see it is available in a 2-2.5 lb trigger. Most places are 4 to 8 weeks out on the SG-3G.

Edited February 17, 2021 by mchapman

[Hoops]

1 hour ago, mchapman said:

Did you try the CMC? I see it is available in a 2-2.5 lb trigger. Most places are 4 to 8 weeks out on the SG-3G.

Yes I did.   Me and several of my fellow shooters using 15-22's had some light strikes.   I like the CMC trigger and ease of installation, but when shooting SCSA, light strikes are a killer.  Several of us also used the Hyperfire Eclipse which is definitely a hard hitting hammer and a great trigger, but we began to get occasional light strikes.  What was happening to us was that the Hyperfire hammer was not getting up to 90 degrees or square on the back of the firing pin.   The hammer was striking the lower third of the firing pin.  This lower area on the firing pin began to wear down resulting in less energy being applied squarely to the back of the firing pin.   When we switched to the Geissele SG-3G, the light strike issue went away.  It has a good square, hard impact.

 

I would also note that the factory extractor in the 15-22 bolt is not that good which can give you other ejection issues.  I would recommend installing a Volquartsen extractor.  If you go with a drop in trigger like CMC, you may also want to get the CMC 15-22 anti-walk pins because of the added thickness from polymer body.  I happen to use them ini the Geissele because I had them.  BTW......some folks change to aftermarket firing pins but I have had great results with the factory pin and the Geissele trigger.

 

Interesting enough, the way you load the 15-22 mags can be a reliability factor as well.  Each bullet should be somewhat offset from each other....staggered in the column.  

 

Good luck..... 

 

[Bill H]

I have been using the AR Gold Trigger in mine with no problem. 

[mchapman]

Still waiting on the trigger to come in but got the Taccom3g  barrel on it, shaved a lot of weight from the gun. Now to go see if it will run.

[Hoops]

53 minutes ago, mchapman said:

Still waiting on the trigger to come in but got the Taccom3g  barrel on it, shaved a lot of weight from the gun. Now to go see if it will run.

That is a lot of weight off of it.   Please let us know how it runs.  HV and SV ammo.  Are you running a lighter recoil spring or stock?

 

Thanks

[mchapman]

Well still no trigger yet, but went and run several different types of ammo through it. On the first two mags I had fail to feed and go into battery. When home took it back apart and smoothed out the feed ramp and throat then polished every thing up. When back out and tried it again and things worked way better. I do not have any SV ammo everything I have is HV. I ran a couple mags of each, Rem Golden Bullet 36gr HP, Blazer 40gr RN, Federal 36gr Hp, Federal 40gr RN plated, Federal 40gr RN lead, CCI Clean Coated 40gr RN, CCI Mini Mags 40gr plated, Eley Action Plus 42gr lead RN, and some Eley Force 42gr RN lead.

Out of all of this I had 3 FTF. [fail to fire] No feed problems and everything cycled. The 3 FTF all came on the second shot from the mag. I didn't pay enough attention if it was the same mag or not. The first shot fired the action cycled and chambered the round, but did not reset the firing pin/trigger? There was no marks on the shell and it was fully chambered, they did go off when I loaded them back in to try again. This was with two different brands of ammo. I sprayed the action out and ran it "wet" for the remainder of this trial. I am running the stock recoil spring and the stock hammer spring with the yellow JP lighter trigger spring that has been pretty dependable with 10-15,000 rounds prior to this.

I also put Taccom3g blowback carbon fiber handguard on this , it doesn't really save much weight 6oz compared to 6.30z but the good part about using this handguard is you do not have to use the extended barrel nut tool for assembly or take down now.

Still waiting on the CMC 2lb trigger to get here and a Crazy Ivan pistol grip.

[Hoops]

Thanks for the initial feedback.

 

It seems that with the same fire controls and the original 16" 15-22 barrel your gun ran fine.  So the only thing that changed was the new shorter/sleeved barrel.

 

My experience with 10/22 short/sleeved barrels has been not developing enough pressure from the shorter barrel to fully cycle the bolt and reset the trigger.  But this has  been predominantly with SV ammo.   Now, in my 10/22 short/sleeved barrels, I will only use CCI Mini mags, Ely Force or Aguila Super Extra HV because of reliabilty.  I will not use SV in short/sleeved barrels.  I also run a reduced recoil spring.

 

In your case, to me, the first round fired because it was charged into battery by the charging handle (assuming you ran each mag dry).   Second round.......The bolt probably had enough force to put the second round into battery but not enough force due to lack of pressure for the bolt to reset the trigger.  CCI Mini Mags and Ely Force are reliable HV ammo that I use in matches.  They run 100% in my 15-22 and in my 10/22 16" barrels and short/sleeved barrel.  I am not familiar enough with the other ammo to know how reliable they are.   Do you by any chance know which ammo caused the FTF/failure to fire?  

 

Just curious.........did you weigh the short sleeved barrel vs the original stock 16" barrel?  I am curious how much weight is saved.

 

 

[Hoops]

42 minutes ago, mchapman said:

Well still no trigger yet, but went and run several different types of ammo through it. On the first two mags I had fail to feed and go into battery. When home took it back apart and smoothed out the feed ramp and throat then polished every thing up. When back out and tried it again and things worked way better. I do not have any SV ammo everything I have is HV. I ran a couple mags of each, Rem Golden Bullet 36gr HP, Blazer 40gr RN, Federal 36gr Hp, Federal 40gr RN plated, Federal 40gr RN lead, CCI Clean Coated 40gr RN, CCI Mini Mags 40gr plated, Eley Action Plus 42gr lead RN, and some Eley Force 42gr RN lead.

Out of all of this I had 3 FTF. [fail to fire] No feed problems and everything cycled. The 3 FTF all came on the second shot from the mag. I didn't pay enough attention if it was the same mag or not. The first shot fired the action cycled and chambered the round, but did not reset the firing pin/trigger? There was no marks on the shell and it was fully chambered, they did go off when I loaded them back in to try again. This was with two different brands of ammo. I sprayed the action out and ran it "wet" for the remainder of this trial. I am running the stock recoil spring and the stock hammer spring with the yellow JP lighter trigger spring that has been pretty dependable with 10-15,000 rounds prior to this.

I also put Taccom3g blowback carbon fiber handguard on this , it doesn't really save much weight 6oz compared to 6.30z but the good part about using this handguard is you do not have to use the extended barrel nut tool for assembly or take down now.

Still waiting on the CMC 2lb trigger to get here and a Crazy Ivan pistol grip.

I should have asked.  Can you tell by dropping in a bullet and dumping it out if the chamber on the Taccom appears to be sporter?  I had a short/sleeved barrel giving me some trouble and found that my sporter reamer would not go in even though it was supposed to be sporter.  Reamed it.....took out a small amount.....but it improved the cycling of the bolt.

[mchapman]

The 1st fail was with a Golden Bullet, the next one were Federal 40gr plated. I weighed the gun before and it was 4lbs. and 15.4oz, now it is 3lbs 8.8oz.

The chamber is supposed to be sporter . When I took it back apart the first time I ran my sport finish reamer into it and it cleaned up a little but the polishing on the feed ramp and that area of the chamber edge seemed to solve the feed/chamber problem. But prior to doing that I tried several bullets and they all dropped in and out, it was just a really sharp edge right on top of the feed ramp that I think was the issue. The bullets that would not feed had a bit of lead shaved up and would not chamber, I marked a couple of bullets on the top to check before I took it back apart and that is where it indicated was the problem. I also hand cycled several rounds prior to taking it back apart and all went in and ejected but some were shaving a bit of lead on the bottom portion next to the ramp.

Edited February 27, 2021 by mchapman

[Hoops]

4 minutes ago, mchapman said:

The 1st fail was with a Golden Bullet, the next one were Federal 40gr plated. I weighed the gun before and it was 4lbs. and 15.4oz, now it is 3lbs 8.8oz.

The chamber is supposed to be sporter . When I took it back apart the first time I ran my sport finish reamer into it and it cleaned up a little but the polishing on the feed ramp and that area of the chamber edge seemed to solve the feed/chamber problem. But prior to doing that I tried several bullets and they all dropped in and out, it was just a really sharp edge right on top of the feed ramp that I think was the issue. The bullets that would not feed had a bit of lead shaved up and would not chamber, I marked a couple of bullets on the top to check before I took it back apart and that is where it indicated was the problem.

Thanks.  That is a lot of weight reduction.   All the weight off the front end must make the transitions feel much better.   Seems like your polishing did the trick.  

 

Good luck with your next outing.  

[mchapman]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

Thanks for the initial feedback.

.  I also run a reduced recoil spring.

 

 

 

 

Have you found a place that you can get a reduced recoil spring for 15-22? I have them in my 10-22 from Kidd, but I can't find one for the M&P

[Hoops]

9 minutes ago, mchapman said:

Have you found a place that you can get a reduced recoil spring for 15-22? I have them in my 10-22 from Kidd, but I can't find one for the M&P

I was just looking in parts drawer.  Would have sworn I had installed a reduced recoil spring in 15-22.......but now after looking, I can only see that I changed out the 10/22's with reduced spring from Kidd.  I'm headed to bed now but will take a look tomorrow after the match to see if I did or just had a senior moment.  Tinkering with too many gun platforms.  

[Hoops]

19 minutes ago, mchapman said:

Have you found a place that you can get a reduced recoil spring for 15-22? I have them in my 10-22 from Kidd, but I can't find one for the M&P

Okay..........I see what I wrote in earlier post.  When I said reduced recoil spring it was when I was discussiong the short/sleeved 10/22 barrels.  My 15-22's are full 16" barrel so standard recoil spring.  Not sure if you can buy reduced recoil springs for 15-22

[Hoops]

29 minutes ago, mchapman said:

Have you found a place that you can get a reduced recoil spring for 15-22? I have them in my 10-22 from Kidd, but I can't find one for the M&P

The late night fog has lifted somewhat.  

 

In another earlier Enos post to Taccom it was questioned by another shooter if Taccom had tested thier short barrel with a standard bolt 15-22 bolt or with a reduced wieght bolt.  The current short barrel 15-22 pistol that SW has just come out with uses a different bolt.... it is lighter.....than the heavier bolt in the 15-22 16" carbine.  The question to Taccom was whether or not they thought their shorter barrel would cycle the standard bolt....heavier.....reliably.  I am not sure if Taccom replied.  I will find the post tomorrow and let you read it.  If you continue to have feed/battery issues it might be a question you can ask Tim at Taccom.  

[36873687]

I have elf man in my daughters works great. Had clip on firing pin spring

[Hoops]

10 hours ago, mchapman said:

Have you found a place that you can get a reduced recoil spring for 15-22? I have them in my 10-22 from Kidd, but I can't find one for the M&P

The link below is to the post that Taccom had made.  You will see some dialogue and pictures about lighter bolts.  Interesting that Taccom made a reference to lighter recoil springs.  Perhaps you could follow up with Tim/Taccom about some of your earlier issues and a lighter recoil spring.

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/291832-any-interest-in-a-ulw-barrel-for-the-sw-1522-for-steel-challenge/