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New Open 3Gun Shooter


tfinnerr

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Hi All

 

Relatively new to these forums so forgive me if this topic has been discussed ad nauseam. I have been shooting 3Gun for a while and stayed within the TacOps division for the last 5 years and had a blast. However, Open has always been on my mind, and after shooting a KL-12 I knew I needed to do it. I have committed and am waiting on a KL-12 NNS, an open 9mm pistol, and will be working over my JP rifle. 
 

This is where I wanted to ask the forum if any of you guys and girls have any tips/tricks to Open that maybe seem insignificant to you, but have really made things easier/smoother or any gear that has saved you that you can’t go without. I would really welcome any and all advice at all for a new Open shooter. Thank you so much! 

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I'll give you a list of changes I made after switching to open. Mostly I shoot far more aggressively. You have extra rounds and the Dissident can be run hard. Pull some triggers at a full sprint, enjoy it, and welcome to the one true division. 

 

Rifle - Multiple JPs

Shotgun - KL12 NNS 

Pistol - Atlas Erebus

 

-JP 45°offset mount for rifle dot

-Atlas bipod (any quality one will work of course)

-Arca Rail for bipod and bags( full retard open and not necessary)

-Extra batteries in my bag

-Reconfigure belt setup 

-Get the thumb actuated mag release on your KL-12

-You will rarely use a drum mag. Stick to the 12 and 20 rounders 

-Shotgun mag pouch if that appeals to you

-Learn your new patterns with the change to a 14" shotgun

-Dumping a shotgun with a huge mag

Edited by Adamj
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Adam makes a lot of good points. In my opinion the biggest advantage switching to Open from Tac ops is that your movement is the same regardless of which gun you are using. You no longer have to move with the shotgun (loading) in a completely different way from the other platforms. So working on your movement fundamentals pays huge dividends. 

 

I was pretty good at Tac Ops, but I spent most of my limited time practicing loading shotgun in all the various iterations and that hurt my other proficiencies. 2020 ProAm was my first match in full-on open and my first major match and I got 17th overall. Smoothing out the delta between the guns really worked for me. 

 

But it still takes practice, it's just easier to practice effectively across guns. 

 

I recently started shooting USPSA to really hone in on the movement work I do at my home range. And because in an options match open pistol is good to lean on. 

 

One slight issue right now is that the KL-12 runs 100% with AA and Fed Grands, but those shells are impossible to find right now. Actually there are no shells for sale of any kind in all of Georgia it would seem. So I'd start trying now to find premium 1250fps shells for matches and grab decent cheaper shells for practice. 

 

Edit: I don't have most of the gear Adam mentions. Other than a KL-12, my only open specific gear is just a decent lightweight rifle bag and offset dot for rifle. I'll get a bipod before I shoot another major. Don't feel like you have to buy a bunch of gear right off. Do it if you can, but focusing on movement practice and fundamentals will pay larger dividends. And stocking up on ammo. If you don't already have a dialed in long range rifle load than you do need that for sure. 

Edited by Blockader
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This is pretty good stuff above

Find a good way to carry/load shotgun mags

45 offset dot on the rifle and learn how and when to use it and where to zero it 

I really prefer a frame mounted dot vs. slide mounted, yes a lot of top guys use a slide ride but I concluded that the open pistol shooters are right, it is much better not moving even shooting minor

Test your gear, its not a myth keeping them running is somewhat harder especially in bad weather low temps, ammo shortages etc.

 

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13 hours ago, inertia said:

 

I really prefer a frame mounted dot vs. slide mounted, yes a lot of top guys use a slide ride but I concluded that the open pistol shooters are right, it is much better not moving even shooting minor

 

 

 

I agree. It does make figuring out a 3-gun appropriate holster more challenging though. So best to figure out whether matches in your area feature much hot reholstering or physical challenges, or if race holsters are even allowed before committing to frame mount. I got creative with a NERD Urn to make frame mount work. 

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9 hours ago, Blockader said:

 

I agree. It does make figuring out a 3-gun appropriate holster more challenging though. So best to figure out whether matches in your area feature much hot reholstering or physical challenges, or if race holsters are even allowed before committing to frame mount. I got creative with a NERD Urn to make frame mount work. 

 

Thanks @inertia and @Blockader again. Great points. I currently shoot an SVI 5.4" SightTracker that I use in TacOps and LOVE it. It has, god, somewhere near 40k-50k rounds through it now? It has been fantastic. I am waiting (not patiently) on a Honcho and I will be playing with both the slide mounted with single port comp as well as the frame mounted with the single port comp - MAYBE the 3 port comp if I could somehow come up with a friendly load that would cycle that. The absolute primary priority I have is a holster. One of my earliest and least fond memories of 3Gun is getting DQd on Stage 1 of a 3Gun Nation East Regional when my CZ jumped out of its USPSA style holster. I was frustrated and swore that would never happen and I have been running active retention ever since. 


I, like most 3gunners, run my gear way too hard. I prefer the long/terrain style matches (think Hard as Hell or Blueridge etc) so I will need to be finding something with retention and I really just don't know if there is a viable solution yet for frame mounted optic pistols. If someone out there knows better, PLEASE correct me. 

 

As for shotgun mags, I am still trying to figure that out as well. I haven't really thought about the shotgun set up only because I still don't have the Dissident, and based on their wait times, I have no idea when that will be. I have a feeling that getting the belt set up for that will require some creativity. 

 

This is all incredibly fantastic advice that I think any prospective-Open shooter would be glad to see. There is really not THAT much out there when it comes to getting into Open for 3Gun. Thanks guys!!

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On 2/16/2021 at 6:20 PM, tfinnerr said:

 

Thanks @inertia and @Blockader again. Great points. I currently shoot an SVI 5.4" SightTracker that I use in TacOps and LOVE it. It has, god, somewhere near 40k-50k rounds through it now? It has been fantastic. I am waiting (not patiently) on a Honcho and I will be playing with both the slide mounted with single port comp as well as the frame mounted with the single port comp - MAYBE the 3 port comp if I could somehow come up with a friendly load that would cycle that. The absolute primary priority I have is a holster. One of my earliest and least fond memories of 3Gun is getting DQd on Stage 1 of a 3Gun Nation East Regional when my CZ jumped out of its USPSA style holster. I was frustrated and swore that would never happen and I have been running active retention ever since. 


I, like most 3gunners, run my gear way too hard. I prefer the long/terrain style matches (think Hard as Hell or Blueridge etc) so I will need to be finding something with retention and I really just don't know if there is a viable solution yet for frame mounted optic pistols. If someone out there knows better, PLEASE correct me. 

 

As for shotgun mags, I am still trying to figure that out as well. I haven't really thought about the shotgun set up only because I still don't have the Dissident, and based on their wait times, I have no idea when that will be. I have a feeling that getting the belt set up for that will require some creativity. 

 

This is all incredibly fantastic advice that I think any prospective-Open shooter would be glad to see. There is really not THAT much out there when it comes to getting into Open for 3Gun. Thanks guys!!

For shotgun mags, I saw some ingenious folks come up with the idea of attaching a clip for whatever configurable belt setup you use directly to the mag. Lots of people use ELS I use TMMS but the concept is the same, grind whatever retention tab on the male clip off then attach it to the mag and it will drop right into the female on your belt. I already had home made kydex hooks on my mags so I just drilled and attached the modified tmms tabs to what was on there it it is a complete game changer. You have to position it right etc. but once you do its money.

For holsters I spent a lot of time on this issue, I only shoot 3 gun and I shoot a LOT of 3 gun of all types. Here's the deal and I have posted this in other threads, the prevailing wisdom is you need a traditional holster to protect the gun and provide retention, but here is the reality. 1. If your shooting open a kydex holster protects the gun but does nothing to protect the dot on the slide or on the frame. When your doing physical stuff its the optic that's going to get borked not really the gun. Going to a race holster gives you unlimited options with something like a honcho which has a lot of potential configurations for which you don't have to change holsters if your running a race holster. If you have to go prone with the pistol you will have to get creative, but any open pistol faces same issue due to the optic. 2. Retention, I run an everglades race holster its not the only option but all the good ones offer what I think is pretty infallible retention if you do your job. DAA, Safari, Everglades probably best. If i dont want my gun to come out its not possible, when I want it its instantly in my hand once you perfect the lever flip and grab in dry fire. I am sure at some point I will be wrong but I have a kydex holster that I hacked up to fit my gun in its current config that I keep in the truck for when I need it. I have now shot a full season of matches and it has not come out yet. Just something to consider.

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On 2/16/2021 at 7:20 PM, tfinnerr said:

 

Thanks @inertia and @Blockader again. Great points. I currently shoot an SVI 5.4" SightTracker that I use in TacOps and LOVE it. It has, god, somewhere near 40k-50k rounds through it now? It has been fantastic. I am waiting (not patiently) on a Honcho and I will be playing with both the slide mounted with single port comp as well as the frame mounted with the single port comp - MAYBE the 3 port comp if I could somehow come up with a friendly load that would cycle that. The absolute primary priority I have is a holster. One of my earliest and least fond memories of 3Gun is getting DQd on Stage 1 of a 3Gun Nation East Regional when my CZ jumped out of its USPSA style holster. I was frustrated and swore that would never happen and I have been running active retention ever since. 


I, like most 3gunners, run my gear way too hard. I prefer the long/terrain style matches (think Hard as Hell or Blueridge etc) so I will need to be finding something with retention and I really just don't know if there is a viable solution yet for frame mounted optic pistols. If someone out there knows better, PLEASE correct me. 

 

As for shotgun mags, I am still trying to figure that out as well. I haven't really thought about the shotgun set up only because I still don't have the Dissident, and based on their wait times, I have no idea when that will be. I have a feeling that getting the belt set up for that will require some creativity. 

 

This is all incredibly fantastic advice that I think any prospective-Open shooter would be glad to see. There is really not THAT much out there when it comes to getting into Open for 3Gun. Thanks guys!!

 

 

As far as holsters go, like you, I had an incident with a pistol coming out. My rifle sling tripped the release on a DAA Alpha X holster and sent my Atlas Chaos tumbling through the gravel. I was perfectly happy with a race holster until that point. If you don't hit the release they're rock solid and totally fine for most matches especially bay style stages. If you like the ultra-physical it may or may not work for you. Sometimes it comes down to peace of mind more than whether or not it will work.

 

@inertia is right a race holster will give you the most options especially with the many configurations of the Honcho. A guy local to me FSTactical built hooded kydex holsters for the Atlas Chaos that were badass and Atlas sold them on their site. I mention that to say that there are options for whatever pistol setup you decide on. Personally I don't think you'll lose any speed with a slide ride dot and a hooded holster. 

 

Regarding shotgun mags, my two preferred methods are kydex clips and pouches. Since I no longer needed shell caddies I swap out a rifle and shotgun pouch in the appendix position. At the 7 to 9 positions I use clips on mags. Some guys use pouches in this position like Lan and Mike from Dissident do sometimes. I also got my pouch from FSTatical.

 

I've attached a picture of my setup. The spacing would be different were I wearing it. I can also add a pistol pouch or a rifle pouch on Tekloks as well as fit two more Vepr mags with clips if I had to. Belt setup varies from person to person and, as I'm sure you know, there's really no wrong way if it works for you. 

20210218_192704_copy_3000x2250.jpg

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