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I'm so confused


BARRYJ
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I have been trying to set up my 650 to load 9mm.  Been having trouble.  A couple weeks ago, I thought it was a problem with Aguilla brass.  Turns out it's not.  I resized some brass on a single stage press and they drop right in the case gauge.  I then loaded them on my 650 and about 25% of them won't fit in the case gauge.  Some of them have a little bulge where the bullet is in the case.  I ran a few through without inserting a bullet and they all dropped in the case gauge with no problem.  I'm guessing it is a problem with the bullet.  The bullet is 139 grain round nose sized to .356 and coated.  Should a bullet be sized a little smaller if coated?  Would I get better results if I went to a lighter bullet?  I also have a few pieces of brass that won't resize.  I'll size them on the single stage press, but it's like the die won't go down far enough.  The brass seems to be to big around the web.  It leaves a shoulder where the die stops.  It's range pickup brass.  Could this be 9 major brass that is stretched out too much?

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You haven't provided us with the important information.

 

1) Bullet name and type/style. (e.g. BBI, TC)

2) Does your sizing die touch the shellplate? It should, if not re-read the dies instructions carefully.

3) Are the bullets being seated straight? A MBF powder funnel can help.

4) How did you determine the OAL? LINK to "How to determine OAL"

5) What's the case mouth measurement? It should be around .377 - .379.

6) What type of case gauge are you using? Hopefully not a EGW.

7) Post a picture of the failed rounds.

 

P.S. Generally lead/coated bullet are sized a little larger than the standard .355 FMJ, so .356 isn't abnormal.

Edited by 4n2t0
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Barry, the bulge around the top of the case is caused by too much bell or flare from the expander.  Back it off a little and see what happens.  Better yet, get a Mr Bulletfeeder funnel/expander and replace the Dillon.  The MBF is a two step expander and requires no, or a very slight flare.  The top step is a thou over bullet diameter so the bullet fits into the case and remains vertical.  Another tip is to seat and crimp separately.  Use a Lee Factory Carbide Crimp Die for crimping.  It sizes the top 1/4" of the case while it crimps.

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I'm a little less confused.  Just sized, belled the mouth and seated and crimped a bullet on ten rounds on my single stage press.  They all fit in the chamber gauge perfect.  Guess it's not the bullet and the setup of my machine.  Time to strip it down and start over.

Edited by BARRYJ
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47 minutes ago, BARRYJ said:

I'm a little less confused.  Just sized, belled the mouth and seated and crimped a bullet on ten rounds on my single stage press.  They all fit in the chamber gauge perfect.  Guess it's not the bullet and the setup of my machine.  Time to strip it down and start over.

I would tighten shellplate, lower die until it just kisses plate, make sure ANY flare is removed. And of course lube the cases.

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4 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

6) What type of case gauge are you using? Hopefully not a EGW.

 

ok, why?  while mine in .40 seems to work perfectly, they do seem tight for 9 and 39 super as those rounds plunk fine in the actual barrels.  so that's my guess why.

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4 hours ago, Sarge said:

Lube brass. Always 

new here - lube even with carbide dies?  or are you talking about lubing inside the rim before seating a bullet?  or something else...

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9 minutes ago, davsco said:

new here - lube even with carbide dies?  or are you talking about lubing inside the rim before seating a bullet?  or something else...

especially with new brass you want to lube, these cases are very clean and dry. If you use dry tumbled brass, you have small amounts of dust that helps.

I leaned this also when I got new Starline 357 brass. Just give it a spritz of one-shot in a plastic baggie, massage it between your fingers. Big difference!!

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I use lube to increase the lifespan of the press and components on the press as well as making the entire process more efficient.  Manufacturers indicate you do not need to use lube with Carbide Dies, just because you can does not necessarily mean you should.  Once I learned the proper amount of lube to use, (yes you can use too much) my loading efficiency increased notably.  Once you figure out a system, you will most likely see the benefits.  For me the press ran much, much smoother, with far fewer rejected rounds.

Edited by Boomstick303
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1 hour ago, davsco said:

new here - lube even with carbide dies?  or are you talking about lubing inside the rim before seating a bullet?  or something else...

 

Get a gallon plastic bag.  Give the inside a 2-3 second spray of One-Shot (or your equivalent) & let dry.  Dump in your bin of ready brass.  Seal the bag and shake around & knead the bag for a minute so all brass is covered with lube.  This way will get the brass lubed without any excessive lube to deal with.  And, a can will last a very long time. 

 

As @RudyVey& @Boomstick303 mention, it'll make the reloading process much easier & better for your machine; more consistent OAL, belling, primer seating, etc.

 

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1 hour ago, davsco said:

new here - lube even with carbide dies?  or are you talking about lubing inside the rim before seating a bullet?  or something else...

Lube all brass. Your elbows and shoulders will thank you in 20 years!!!

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2 hours ago, davsco said:

new here - lube even with carbide dies?  or are you talking about lubing inside the rim before seating a bullet?  or something else...

Case lube. Like mentioned by others put in a bag or plastic shoe box, spray lube, swirl or shake, drop in casefeeder, load.

 Lubing has many advantages.. easier on shoulder, press, etc but for me biggest plus is it helps maintain better consistency in oal, pf etc

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45 minutes ago, Don_B said:

Lube all brass. Your elbows and shoulders will thank you in 20 years!!!

 

I'm 73 and I'll tell you that 9mm is hard on the elbows.  40sw and 45ACP are a piece of cake.  I don't know why 9mm is so different.  I can resize about 100 pieces before by elbow get so sore I can't do anymore.   If I lube with One-Shot I can keep going until I get bored.

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Your bullets are seating crooked

Get a seating stem that fits your bullet. All die makers will make custom seating stems and, generally, have some better stems on shelf for specific bullets.

Be sure you are expanding the case so case ID is 0.001-0.002” smaller than bullet diameter and flaring case mouth enough so bullet can sit on case straight.

 

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Lack of sufficient crimp is the reason most rounds I get in for evaluation won't fit a gauge.  Put a magnifier or zoom in good phone camera on the case mouth of a loaded round.  If there's a visible gap larger than about 1/5th of the case mouth brass there, add more crimp.  If it measures over .382" right at the case mouth, add more crimp.  Gun writers over the years have got people afraid to crimp at all.  Unless you're loading sintered powder bullets, 12,000 lbs of force on the back end of the bullet will swage most any crimp right back out.

 

Non-concentric seating and grossly-oversized bullets are the next two.  Mic your bullets to be sure they are what they say on the box.  There's no such thing as bullets all exactly, perfectly .356", and that goes double for lead and triple for coated-lead.

 

Further down the list is seating heavy bullets too deep.

 

If you're using a Shockbottle case gauge, you can send me dummy rounds for inspection and evaluation.

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7 hours ago, zzt said:

Barry, the bulge around the top of the case is caused by too much bell or flare from the expander.  Back it off a little and see what happens.  Better yet, get a Mr Bulletfeeder funnel/expander and replace the Dillon.  The MBF is a two step expander and requires no, or a very slight flare.  The top step is a thou over bullet diameter so the bullet fits into the case and remains vertical.  Another tip is to seat and crimp separately.  Use a Lee Factory Carbide Crimp Die for crimping.  It sizes the top 1/4" of the case while it crimps.

Barry do not use a factory crimp die with coated bullets. Is the bullet you using one of Gary's?

Edited by Darrell
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16 hours ago, davsco said:

new here - lube even with carbide dies?  or are you talking about lubing inside the rim before seating a bullet?  or something else...

I followed @B.Enos advice and use hornady one shot case lube. did I need to? no the car polish I use to  prep the cases  makes  them  shine.

 

HOWEVER @B. Enos was right.adding the one shot to my routine( I prep cases a day or 2 ahead of us eto let them dry first)--made a world of difference. loading is much easier than with just  car polish alone.

 

remember to clean out the sizing/decapping die every 2-3,000 rounds loaded. and watch fro gunk build up on  the tip of the powder die.alcohol and q tips are your friend  ;)

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13 hours ago, Darrell said:

Barry do not use a factory crimp die with coated bullets. Is the bullet you using one of Gary's?

I have used a FDC on well over 20k rounds of 9mm with coated Blue bullets and have had perfect results. Never compromised the coating.

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Think I have it figured out.  Wasn't belling enough, making it harder to put the bullet in, and not crimping enough.  Ran about 20 through without primer and powder and seems to be working.  All 20 went in the case gauge.  Now to load it up with primers and powder and see how it goes.  The 250 that I was having problems fitting in the case gauge were sent through the crimp stage and they all fit.

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8 hours ago, Nc1911 said:

I have used a FDC on well over 20k rounds of 9mm with coated Blue bullets and have had perfect results. Never compromised the coating.

 

I agree.  I've used it on four brands of HiTech coated, Precision Bullets proprietary coated, plated and jacketed with zero problems.  Also a few other coated, but I don't remember what the were coated with.

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