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Missing First Shot on Steel


hermes_actual

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I've noticed that I not infrequently miss my first shot on steel - from the draw, the first plate of a rack, after reloading, etc. If it's a multiple steel array, I usually go one for one after the miss. This doesn't happen on paper. I suppose I'm treating steel as a binary and not looking to a discrete point. Any thoughts or advice appreciated. Thanks.

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8 minutes ago, Guy Neill said:

Historically there has seemed to me a tendency to look at the steel instead of the sights.  I don't know if this plays a part for you since it's only the first shot, but maybe something to think about.

I should've mentioned I shoot CO. I try to shoot target focused looking for a specific spot on each target. Maybe I’m looking at the dot instead.

Edited by hermes_actual
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30 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:

You just have to aim.

 

On paper targets, I cheat by shooting the easiest one in the first array first, closest or least obscured by No Shoot, Hard Cover, or long lean. 

Thanks. I figured that. Just trying to understand why it's a thing on steel for me.

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/28/2021 at 5:10 AM, SGT_Schultz said:

Same happens to me if I don't wait that millisecond that it takes to extend my arms as far as I should and not slap the crap out of the trigger.

 

IOW, try not rushing it so much.

A BIG +1. Rushing the first shot not only misses the first shot, but screws up your timing (I wish I could spell ryhtem , but I can't) for the rest of the plates. I see it all the time (including a 6 stage Steel Challenge match I ROed today. ) Getting on the first plate positively puts you in position to nail the rest. That first plate can't be rushed.

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1 minute ago, GOF said:

A BIG +1. Rushing the first shot not only misses the first shot, but screws up your timing (I wish I could spell ryhtem , but I can't) for the rest of the plates. I see it all the time (including a 6 stage Steel Challenge match I ROed today. ) Getting on the first plate positively puts you in position to nail the rest. That first plate can't be rushed.

Great points. Thank you.

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I read an interview with Christian Sailer, and he talked about concentrating on prepping the trigger during the transition to steel, and from steel target to steel target.  As  @SGT_Schultzindicated upon self analysis I was slapping the trigger when shooting at steel.  The trigger prep does a couple things for me.  Its a que to take that extra .10 of a second (if that even measures to be .10 of a second) to line up the target and takes my mind off missing the steel target, and allows for a more solid trigger pull to prevent pulling the shot.  At first it seems slow, but it will speed up as long as you make the effort to try and shoot this way.  After training this way for awhile, it becomes second nature.  My accuracy on steel has improved greatly.  

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Still happens to me but it’s getting better.  I really concentrate on prepping the trigger and for some reason I end up focusing more on the sights🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited by RH39
Grammer
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If you believe you have to be at a certain rhythm/tempo, you will pull the trigger simply because "it's time to pull the trigger" and not because you saw what you needed to see. If you wait to see the sights and have them settle, sometimes it can seem to be an eternity. Yet, it's the only way to shoot transition to steel, whether it's from a paper array, arriving from different location, drawing or reloading - you have to see what you need to see and only then pull the trigger. 

 

A good exercise for me is to do a timed draw on a 55 yard steel torso at our local range. Since it's a difficult target, you have to get the trigger press correctly and you have to see everything lined up. Since you cannot "cheat" with a poor acceptable sight picture, you're forced to eat idle time every time you do something sloppy. This teaches you to stop that urge to just pull the trigger to beat the timer and instead simply ignore any mistake you make along the way and wait until you see what you need to see, even if it seems really long. It also teaches you to save time on your reaction and getting the gun in front of you, not on skimping on the acceptable sight picture. 

 

The best part is that even when it seems really long, it's actually not. It feels like a lot of time because you're used to going faster. And, if you look at your time even on a sloppy draw with a long(ish) delay, it's still way faster than a make up shot, especially a make up shot of that difficulty. 

Edited by IVC
typos... as always
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Good post IVC,,,

Rhythm caught my eye.. Currently only game I shoot is bowling pins and I have same issue... Frequently skank the first shot.

after years of USPSA and drawing into the easiest target available... A zone  is bigger than a pin,,, and even a C is pretty big and not a big deal to CA the first target... Sooo got used to a rhythm of sub second to right at first shot...
C zone accuracy at a pin is a disaster,, winging one and setting it spinning is worse.

So yeh thanks,,, need to UNLEARN rhythm,  then need to learn drawing into small target at distance.... I have some polymer pin targets,,, can set em up at  20 yards... do some 1 shot drills from low ready.

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It seems to me that you are not allowing yourself the proper amount of time to properly acquire the sights (dot in your case) and for it to settle on the target.  The miss on the first target then forces you to rush the rest of the stage.

 

Take the extra millisecond and focus on the dot as it settles onto the middle of the target.

 

Another thing I would do is to practice on steel to see where my hits and misses are depending on where my dot was located on the target.  This is on a 8" steel plate at 15 yards with a 16 moa dot on my C-more.

1201318907_steelhits.thumb.png.21eadd036128965339bd87ada12f03ba.png1877022386_steelhits1.png.309fcefb5f61bca9328393ba7f4cbc40.png

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14 hours ago, IVC said:

If you believe you have to be at a certain rhythm/tempo, you will pull the trigger simply because "it's time to pull the trigger" and not because you saw what you needed to see. If you wait to see the sights and have them settle, sometimes it can seem to be an eternity. Yet, it's the only way to shoot transition to steel, whether it's from a paper array, arriving from different location, drawing or reloading - you have to see what you need to see and only then pull the trigger. 

 

A good exercise for me is to do a timed draw on a 55 yard steel torso at out local range. Since it's a difficult target, you have to get the trigger press correctly and you have to see everything lined up. Since you cannot "cheat" with a poor acceptable sight picture, you're forced to eat idle time every time you do something sloppy. This teaches you to stop that urge to just pull the trigger to beat the timer and instead simply ignore any mistake you make along the way and wait until you see what you need to see, even if it seems really long. It also teaches you to save time on your reaction and getting the gun in front of you, not on skimping on the acceptable sight picture. 

 

The best part is that even when it seems really long, it's actually not. It's feels like a lot of time because you're used to going faster. And, if you look at your time even on a sloppy draw with a long(ish) delay, it's still way faster than a make up shot, especially a make up shot of that difficulty. 

A Big +1!

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16 hours ago, Joe4d said:

So yeh thanks,,, need to UNLEARN rhythm,  then need to learn drawing into small target at distance.... I have some polymer pin targets,,, can set em up at  20 yards... do some 1 shot drills from low ready.

I would say it differently - there is a sight picture and trigger pull that result in a good shot, but you can approach them from either end of the time axis, by being too fast and slowing down, or by being too slow and speeding up. It's actually not about the speed, it's about the acceptable sight picture, but it loosely translates to speed. What you need on steel, or any other target where there is no C/D zone and it's just a binary 0/1, is to go from the "other side" of the time axis and make sure you hit the target even if it takes a bit longer.

 

Here is what I mean. 

 

Draw on a target at around 10 yards. Something you can do in sub-second, where you can recognize the sights and confirm they are good enough, but you might not have the refinement to judge really well how good/bad the sight picture is, even if you can confirm it's an acceptable one. Do a few draws and make sure that you're getting that shot (in this case, it's okay even if you're just getting lucky). Now, draw on the same target but use the upper A zone, AND, start with a *par time* of 2 seconds. You're not looking for speed, you are lining up the sights with intentionally extra time to spare and you're executing the correct trigger pull (a bit more about that below). This should be quite easy, especially if you move your hands as fast as in the first part (which you should), but use the extra time to keep the sights steady. Now, start decreasing the time (you don't have to reset par, just beat it by 0.1s, then by 0.2s, etc.). As you decrease time, make sure that you are *sure* you can hit the target. Nothing fancy, no rushing, you're not pushing the limit, you're finding your *safe performance level* where you can confidently hit the small target. As you keep going, you'll find that there is a time where you have to start taking chances and will occasionally miss. This is your "upper bound." Now you have your "lower bound" (part 1) and your "upper bound" (part 2, head shot). It's not the same target (torso vs. head), but it doesn't matter. You want to be able to switch between the two modes of required sight picture and you want to improve each mode separately WITHOUT being tempted to interchange them (too much time on open, or too fast on hard target). You want to get faster on open targets AND get faster on hard targets that you are not allowed to miss. Understanding the different feel and different time pressure for the two cases will do wonders for understanding your shooting. 

 

On trigger pull... On a very hard target, you might have to do a trigger *press*, the way you would if you were shooting bullseye. However, even on quite difficult targets you can use a "fast trigger pull," where you use perfectly lined-up sights, but are operating the trigger as fast as you can. The way you'd practice this is to line up sights and on the buzzer you pull the trigger as fast as you can without missing. You'll see that it will come down to only the reaction time even for some difficult targets, provided you do your part right. Now, think about a hard shot from above - if you get sights to be stable enough, then you can do a fast trigger pull and you won't miss. So, if you can get your very good sight picture in X amount of time, it will be only about X+.15s to get a guaranteed hit. It's the sights that have to be set up correctly, and you have to execute a mechanical skill that you know you can do. So, if you go very fast with the draw and settling the sights, if you recognize that they are stable, THEN you execute the mechanical skill of correct trigger pull, you can be quite fast on HARD shots, or any shots where it's a binary 0/1 outcome such as steel. The key is to understand the difference in slop allowed for different difficulty of targets. 

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If your gun is sighted in, and you pull the trigger straight to rear, without disturbing sights or dot, it is impossible to miss target. Easy said but difficult to do. If you were to slow down and do that this would take less time than the make up. With arrays of steel there is a tendency to hurry to the next one. Watch people shoot steel if there is an array like a plate rack. After you get the first couple you tend to speed up, because you think you can go faster and usually ends up in redo’s so that negates the speed of the first couple. Slow down call your shot.

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On 3/1/2021 at 1:34 PM, Boomstick303 said:

I read an interview with Christian Sailer, and he talked about concentrating on prepping the trigger during the transition to steel, and from steel target to steel target.  As  @SGT_Schultzindicated upon self analysis I was slapping the trigger when shooting at steel.  The trigger prep does a couple things for me.  Its a que to take that extra .10 of a second (if that even measures to be .10 of a second) to line up the target and takes my mind off missing the steel target, and allows for a more solid trigger pull to prevent pulling the shot.  At first it seems slow, but it will speed up as long as you make the effort to try and shoot this way.  After training this way for awhile, it becomes second nature.  My accuracy on steel has improved greatly.  

 This is why I practice with a-zone size steel targets to represent paper and only shoot paper at distance. I’m practicing on shooting the smallest scoring zone in 90% of my set-ups and I’m not distracted with going from white to brown as we do from steel to paper. I’m constantly practicing that color and size change and the wide-open brown is only 25-35yds. 
Im of the belief to practice what you don’t know.. If you’re constantly missing the initial steel of an array, start putting steel all over your practice arrays. Change up and discourage developing cadence practicing this. Shoot your dot or sights, not a rhythm. Reverse and re-arrange.

It’ll become a strength. 
But I’m always prepping as my sights begin to align with my target. I’m tracking my sights in recoil as well and prepping with follow up shots too.

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This is all great advice, prepping the trigger, sight alignment discipline and the rest.  When shooting my SS with less than 2lb trigger and very little take-up (less 1/8”) there is no prepping of the trigger so I try for a fast “surprise break” instead as described above.  On my CZ S2s I can prep the trigger, especially on the first DA shot.  Point being, adjustments sometimes need to be made when moving from one platform to another.

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