Lead Bullet Casting 101

[AverageJoeShooting]

 

I know theres tons of youtube videos on this subject, but given that bullets are becoming harder and harder to come by, i figured id do a video on how to lead  cast bullets

[Intel6]

As you say this is your video, I will commend you for your effort and good intent to provide info for others. I am not someone who likes to crap on other peoples work but I do have some constructive comments as a longtime caster. Your video is good as it shows the process and gives people who don't cast an idea how it goes (which was your intent). 

 

Couple of things on equipment: 

 

- The pot you are using is not assembled correctly. It appears the other pot in the video is correctly assembled and you should either use that one or use it as an example to correctly assemble the second one.

 

- The mould is also not assembled correctly and that could lead to it being damaged.  The sprue cutter handle should be bolted to the underside of the sprue plate and is used to cam open the sprue plate and the camming force helps cut the solidified sprue. The mould (actually an 8 cavity made by MP Moulds in Slovenia. NOE Moulds in Utah only makes up to 5 cavity moulds) is a copy of the Lee mould and the sprue cutting lever is set up the same way. Look at the Lee 6 cavity you have and see how the sprue lever is mounted and how it cams against the side of the mould block to cut the sprue when pulled to the right on opening.   

 

Now about casting:

 

- Preheating the mould is a good practice but once you get everything up to temp you need to adjust your temp for optimal casting. It appears you are running your lead extremely hot and you are not letting your sprue cool enough before dumping bullets. Frosted bullets are actually a indication of the alloy being too hot.  Alloy that is too cold results in bullets with rounded edges and wrinkles. Frosted bullets are not wrong but because you are running your alloy hotter you need to make sure you are cooling the filled mould enough between pours. I like to run two moulds and alternate them so it gives the other mold time to cool while I am working with the other one. 

 

- When filling the cavities in the mould you should make sure there is a decent puddle of lead on the top of the mould. When the lead is solidifying in the mould cavity it shrinks and actually draws more lead into the cavity from the sprue.  Also, having a nice puddle of lead/sprue on the mould helps keep the heat of the mould consistent for more consistent casting.  

 

Hope this was constructive help for you and made sense.  If you have any questions about what I talked about above or any about casting/coating/sizing please ask.  I am always happy to help out fellow casters/reloaders. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[noylj]

Frosted bullets are still more aesthetic than a problem. Problem is opening mold too early and smearing lead across mold and sprue plate.

Unless shooting pistol over 50 yards, bullets will shoot well as long as base is completely filled. Wrinkles could harm accutacy but not until about 50 yards.

Sizing: don't. It harms accuracy. If mold casts bullets too large, complain to manufacturer after proving they really are too large to feed.

[Intel6]

I agree, I like to make sure everything is filled out so I run hotter and mine are frosted. Your concerns about opening the mould too early are valid and may apply here. Since the camming sprue handle is not installed correctly I think he is opening before the lead is solidified because he wouldn't be able to get it open very easily since he is cutting 8 sprue openings. Also since he is not getting a sprue puddle it is easier for him to open the sprue plate as he is not cutting through much from what I can see in the video.  

[dannyd]

The hot plate is new too me, so I tried it and didn't like it. Been casting 32 years and well over 200,000 bullets just easier to put the mould over the pot to let it warm up.   Get a PID unit now they work great even use PID on my sizers: Star and RCBS.   Love to cast: everything from 38 short colt to 300 Winchester magnum only bullets I shoot.  

[Miranda]

interesting...

I run a lee 5 pound pot and 6 hole 9mm rn.

 

my advice is aim at frosted bullets, once you start seeing frosted back off the heat and cool the sprue plate.

I do this because I can't tell hot and shiney from a bit cold and shiney. 

 

I have not installed a PID... I have the items to make one...

I understand temperature of the pour can make a difference for diameter.

The alloy being poured can as well, I tried to test this last one and the temps were

not known so I was not sure.

 

I do size my bullets and I tumble lube

the accuracy comment I can't understand, I think I got better accuracy from sizing

I am sure sizing gets me bullets that are just right to prevent lead streaks.

my accuracy result may have been caused by something else besides sizing.

 

My advice is to cast bullets for a cartridge that is normal to expect lead bullets,

such as the 45 or the 38.  The 9mm  has issues with reloading cast bullets.

 

miranda

 

 

 

 

 

[dannyd]

45 is definitely easier to cast and load.  I size all my bullets to get a uniform affect.  May try powder coating now that things have slowed down.   Everyone one that cast as an option: my main advice is start with Lee gear and see if you like.

[AverageJoeShooting]

19 hours ago, Intel6 said:

As you say this is your video, I will commend you for your effort and good intent to provide info for others. I am not someone who likes to crap on other peoples work but I do have some constructive comments as a longtime caster. Your video is good as it shows the process and gives people who don't cast an idea how it goes (which was your intent). 

 

Couple of things on equipment: 

 

- The pot you are using is not assembled correctly. It appears the other pot in the video is correctly assembled and you should either use that one or use it as an example to correctly assemble the second one.

 

- The mould is also not assembled correctly and that could lead to it being damaged.  The sprue cutter handle should be bolted to the underside of the sprue plate and is used to cam open the sprue plate and the camming force helps cut the solidified sprue. The mould (actually an 8 cavity made by MP Moulds in Slovenia. NOE Moulds in Utah only makes up to 5 cavity moulds) is a copy of the Lee mould and the sprue cutting lever is set up the same way. Look at the Lee 6 cavity you have and see how the sprue lever is mounted and how it cams against the side of the mould block to cut the sprue when pulled to the right on opening.   

 

Now about casting:

 

- Preheating the mould is a good practice but once you get everything up to temp you need to adjust your temp for optimal casting. It appears you are running your lead extremely hot and you are not letting your sprue cool enough before dumping bullets. Frosted bullets are actually a indication of the alloy being too hot.  Alloy that is too cold results in bullets with rounded edges and wrinkles. Frosted bullets are not wrong but because you are running your alloy hotter you need to make sure you are cooling the filled mould enough between pours. I like to run two moulds and alternate them so it gives the other mold time to cool while I am working with the other one. 

 

- When filling the cavities in the mould you should make sure there is a decent puddle of lead on the top of the mould. When the lead is solidifying in the mould cavity it shrinks and actually draws more lead into the cavity from the sprue.  Also, having a nice puddle of lead/sprue on the mould helps keep the heat of the mould consistent for more consistent casting.  

 

Hope this was constructive help for you and made sense.  If you have any questions about what I talked about above or any about casting/coating/sizing please ask.  I am always happy to help out fellow casters/reloaders. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so are you saying the handle of the mould should be bolted to the right of the mould? how do people get the plate open then? when i pour the sprue plate gets so solidified and stuck theres no way id be able to open it without hitting the handle with something

 

i rebuilt that pot, thats why its all weird and jacked up, but i mean it works perfectly and i get no drip at all. if it really turns out to be a huge problem i can always just rebuild it again

 

what does your process look like switching between the two moulds? like 10 pours in one then switch to the other or?

 

noted about the puddle ontop of the mould

 

 

[dannyd]

Some people run two 4 or 2 cavity moulds at a time.  

[Intel6]

2 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

so are you saying the handle of the mould should be bolted to the right of the mould? how do people get the plate open then? when i pour the sprue plate gets so solidified and stuck theres no way id be able to open it without hitting the handle with something

 

i rebuilt that pot, thats why its all weird and jacked up, but i mean it works perfectly and i get no drip at all. if it really turns out to be a huge problem i can always just rebuild it again

 

what does your process look like switching between the two moulds? like 10 pours in one then switch to the other or?

 

noted about the puddle ontop of the mould

 

 

 

The handle that is attached to the sprue plate (right hand side) should be bolted to the underside of the plate and the rounded cam surface should contact the side of the mould. After the pour and the sprue is solidified you pull the handle to the right and it cams the sprue plate to cut the sprue loose.  It works just like the Lee 6 cavity,  compare the MP mould to the Lee to get it correct.  I took a few pics of my MP mould with the sprue plate handle attached. The first is from above the mould and the second is with the sprue plate open from the undersiade. 

 

OK, kinda wonky looking but if it works. You might be better off using the other one as you can adjust and use the mould guide and start pouring a bigger sprue.    

 

Running more than one mould increases output and permits the lead to solidify correctly.

 

Procedure is straightforward, the moulds need to come up to temp first. I cast with one while the 2nd heats up.  Fill 1st mould and set down to cool.  Fill the 2nd mould and set down to cool. Now the 1st mould is ready to be emptied and refilled. You just keep alternating between moulds until you are finished.  Since I run my lead hotter than some I have a small fan blowing on the moulds when they are at rest to help keep them from overheating.    

 

 

[dannyd]

Wish people could see some of the setups we had back in the day.   We would build a mount and have a Lee 10 lbs pot feeding a another Lee 10 lbs pot.  This would keep lead hot using large moulds and small pots. 

[Miranda]

making yer own bullets is rather satisfying.

 

the problem with taking this up as a new hobby is that everything seems to be
"out of stock"

 

a few months ago I had decided to gear up for 45...
no melting pots nor molds were around.

 

so while it may be one way to ... erm spend time when not at the range...

it currently does not look like there are going to be many opportunities to
get the items needed to make bullets. Should you want to take up the hobby.

 

I wonder if the jacketed/swage molds are all out of stock also?
... not that it makes much difference, usually those items were on the
names on list and we will get to you in order, deposit please, basis.

 

It does not make me happy to offer a somewhat limited solution,
that looks like even that possibility does not really exist.

 

I think I am gunna go re-reading about alloys for rifle work.

miranda

[AverageJoeShooting]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:02 AM, Intel6 said:

As you say this is your video, I will commend you for your effort and good intent to provide info for others. I am not someone who likes to crap on other peoples work but I do have some constructive comments as a longtime caster. Your video is good as it shows the process and gives people who don't cast an idea how it goes (which was your intent). 

 

Couple of things on equipment: 

 

- The pot you are using is not assembled correctly. It appears the other pot in the video is correctly assembled and you should either use that one or use it as an example to correctly assemble the second one.

 

- The mould is also not assembled correctly and that could lead to it being damaged.  The sprue cutter handle should be bolted to the underside of the sprue plate and is used to cam open the sprue plate and the camming force helps cut the solidified sprue. The mould (actually an 8 cavity made by MP Moulds in Slovenia. NOE Moulds in Utah only makes up to 5 cavity moulds) is a copy of the Lee mould and the sprue cutting lever is set up the same way. Look at the Lee 6 cavity you have and see how the sprue lever is mounted and how it cams against the side of the mould block to cut the sprue when pulled to the right on opening.   

 

Now about casting:

 

- Preheating the mould is a good practice but once you get everything up to temp you need to adjust your temp for optimal casting. It appears you are running your lead extremely hot and you are not letting your sprue cool enough before dumping bullets. Frosted bullets are actually a indication of the alloy being too hot.  Alloy that is too cold results in bullets with rounded edges and wrinkles. Frosted bullets are not wrong but because you are running your alloy hotter you need to make sure you are cooling the filled mould enough between pours. I like to run two moulds and alternate them so it gives the other mold time to cool while I am working with the other one. 

 

- When filling the cavities in the mould you should make sure there is a decent puddle of lead on the top of the mould. When the lead is solidifying in the mould cavity it shrinks and actually draws more lead into the cavity from the sprue.  Also, having a nice puddle of lead/sprue on the mould helps keep the heat of the mould consistent for more consistent casting.  

 

Hope this was constructive help for you and made sense.  If you have any questions about what I talked about above or any about casting/coating/sizing please ask.  I am always happy to help out fellow casters/reloaders. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Man I put the handle to the sprue plate on correctly and it made things about a thousand times easier. The more sprue ontop worked out also. Bullets came out nice and beautiful. 

 

Thanks for the tips

[Intel6]

12 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

Man I put the handle to the sprue plate on correctly and it made things about a thousand times easier. The more sprue ontop worked out also. Bullets came out nice and beautiful. 

 

Thanks for the tips

 

You are certainly welcome.  I am glad you got it working like it is supposed to and I am always happy to help out. 

[AverageJoeShooting]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:02 AM, Intel6 said:

As you say this is your video, I will commend you for your effort and good intent to provide info for others. I am not someone who likes to crap on other peoples work but I do have some constructive comments as a longtime caster. Your video is good as it shows the process and gives people who don't cast an idea how it goes (which was your intent). 

 

Couple of things on equipment: 

 

- The pot you are using is not assembled correctly. It appears the other pot in the video is correctly assembled and you should either use that one or use it as an example to correctly assemble the second one.

 

- The mould is also not assembled correctly and that could lead to it being damaged.  The sprue cutter handle should be bolted to the underside of the sprue plate and is used to cam open the sprue plate and the camming force helps cut the solidified sprue. The mould (actually an 8 cavity made by MP Moulds in Slovenia. NOE Moulds in Utah only makes up to 5 cavity moulds) is a copy of the Lee mould and the sprue cutting lever is set up the same way. Look at the Lee 6 cavity you have and see how the sprue lever is mounted and how it cams against the side of the mould block to cut the sprue when pulled to the right on opening.   

 

Now about casting:

 

- Preheating the mould is a good practice but once you get everything up to temp you need to adjust your temp for optimal casting. It appears you are running your lead extremely hot and you are not letting your sprue cool enough before dumping bullets. Frosted bullets are actually a indication of the alloy being too hot.  Alloy that is too cold results in bullets with rounded edges and wrinkles. Frosted bullets are not wrong but because you are running your alloy hotter you need to make sure you are cooling the filled mould enough between pours. I like to run two moulds and alternate them so it gives the other mold time to cool while I am working with the other one. 

 

- When filling the cavities in the mould you should make sure there is a decent puddle of lead on the top of the mould. When the lead is solidifying in the mould cavity it shrinks and actually draws more lead into the cavity from the sprue.  Also, having a nice puddle of lead/sprue on the mould helps keep the heat of the mould consistent for more consistent casting.  

 

Hope this was constructive help for you and made sense.  If you have any questions about what I talked about above or any about casting/coating/sizing please ask.  I am always happy to help out fellow casters/reloaders. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

do you water quench

[Intel6]

For the most part yes I do. Quenching for improved bullet hardness depends on the bullet metal composition.  You have to have the right metals in the mix to make quenching work they way it is supposed to. Many question the fact that the quenched bullets are being heated back up during coating and has an affect on the hardness. Many just quench after coating also to get better final hardness.  I quench both times for bullet hardness but also for efficient handling purposes. That way I am never siting around waiting for bullets to cool before I can take the next step with them.  

 

One other thing I always do is season my bullets. Others (with hardness testers) have done tests and found that bullets need to sit for a couple of weeks to get to their full potential hardness.  I do try and get them coated and sized within 24-48 hours of casting but then let them sit a few weeks (at least) before loading.  I just try and stay ahead of my bullet needs and cast before I need them to load. 

[dannyd]

18 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

do you water quench

I water drop rifle bullets but stopped doing it with revolver bullets.   Bullets under 1000 Fps didn't need it.   

[Miranda]

I found this following various links on castboolits.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

 

I read and studied and tried it. 

it seems clear and accurate

 

If I understood it...

the authors thinking is that

the best way to cast bullets is to create an alloy that is

matched to needs.  there is some leeway on hardness and speed

in general go up on antimony as expected speeds rise.

expect you will need gas checks for most rifle speeds

 

... I use tin to get good casting and wheel weights for general availability.

the WW are  getting harder to find cheap.

 

I aim at making lead/whatever with 4 percent tin and 4 percent antimony and 1000fps

and sized at .357.

 

luck in your choices

 

miranda

Edited February 5, 2021 by Miranda

[AverageJoeShooting]

7 hours ago, dannyd said:

I water drop rifle bullets but stopped doing it with revolver bullets.   Bullets under 1000 Fps didn't need it.   

so if im shooting these around 1400 fps out of an open gun....probably water quench?

[dannyd]

56 minutes ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

so if im shooting these around 1400 fps out of an open gun....probably water quench?

It's going to help at that speed that but lube is most important.  If your Bn is 14 water drop will take it to about 18 to 20 also at that speed Gas Check may help.   I always run rifle bullets with gas check just force of habit.    Run rifle between 1400 and 2100 fps.

[Miranda]

1 hour ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

so if im shooting these around 1400 fps out of an open gun....probably water quench?

 

the program is get the right size/diameter to avoid leading. first.

Then go up on antimony with enough tin to make casting easy. 

I'd try 10 percent antimony and 4percent tin balance lead/whatnot

 

at 1400, you are getting to speeds where gas-checks are a consideration.

Should you find you are unable to avoid leading, then adding copper bottoms might be in order.

... along with a new mold and additional step of placing them.

 

miranda

 

[ExStreetWalker]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:51 PM, Miranda said:

I found this following various links on castboolits.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

 

I read and studied and tried it. 

it seems clear and accurate

 

If I understood it...

the authors thinking is that

the best way to cast bullets is to create an alloy that is

matched to needs.  there is some leeway on hardness and speed

in general go up on antimony as expected speeds rise.

expect you will need gas checks for most rifle speeds

 

... I use tin to get good casting and wheel weights for general availability.

the WW are  getting harder to find cheap.

 

I aim at making lead/whatever with 4 percent tin and 4 percent antimony and 1000fps

and sized at .357.

 

luck in your choices

 

miranda

 4% tin is a waste of valuable tin.

 

I use a 96/2/2 alloy for all my 9mm and 45 ACP needs.  I use Hi-Tek to coat and it works great.  I also size to .357 for 9mm.

 

I'm not a big shooter, I only cast, loaded and shot around 30K of 9mm last year.

[Miranda]

On 4/24/2021 at 12:32 PM, ExStreetWalker said:

 4% tin is a waste of valuable tin.

 

I use a 96/2/2 alloy for all my 9mm and 45 ACP needs.  I use Hi-Tek to coat and it works great.  I also size to .357 for 9mm.

 

I'm not a big shooter, I only cast, loaded and shot around 30K of 9mm last year.

 

hi ExStreetWalker,

I think I agree with you...

and I suspect you make not think I am, after I say what I am planning to say.

 

First, tin is expensive, compared to lead. Yes, and one should be careful to keep costs down.

Most of my 'lead'  is from wheel weights. 

I think it has some zinc and copper and silver in it also...

just enough that it does not cast as easily as plain lead.

I add antimony to stiffen it as I think the bullets should be a bit harder.

 

the tin?  is in there because I can not get decent fill of the mold without it.

how much? I tried 2 percent... poor bullets

so I added another 2... and get good fill and like the bullets.

 

I can give you other reasons to consider me cheap.... however,

I do think making my own boolits is pretty good proof I'm cheap.

 

Since I am trying to point out my path to glorious bullets...

my recipe... 

your mileage may vary.

 

Frankly, I am less confident about the amount of antimony than the tin

for the rifle velocities.

 

miranda

 

 

[Smokecloud]

There is some Tin in wheel weights, enough that I haven't had to add any for my bullets.  When I do my smelt, to make ingots from WW, I try to use a large pot.  Its around 4 gallons and made of stainless steel.  I use it on a Turkey fryer propane cooker outside.  The thought is making as large of a batch as possible, so that the batch of alloy is consistent.  If I could smelt a 55 gallon barrel of WW to make all my alloy the same across the entire batch, I would.  I can usually get all of a 5 gallon bucket of WW into the pot.  With lead being phased out all over for WW, its getting harder and harder to find WW that still have lead in them.  Current buckets are yielding about 20-25% trash, ie Zinc, Steel, clips, etc.  I keep the temps really low for my smelt.  I like 600 deg F and try to not let it get over 650 at the most.  Zinc melts over 800, so by keeping temps low, the zinc's will simply float on the top and i scoop them off.  If I see them, I will pull them, but its so much easier to just scoop off the crud off the top after its up to temp.  After shooting LaserCast bullets for years, I like harder bullets, so I water quench all of my pistol bullets.  I put the 5 gallon bucket of water under my table, so there is no chance of water splashing up ending in my melting pot.  Place an old rag in the bottom of the bucket for two reasons, one to soften the blow to the bullets when they hit the bottom, and 2nd to make retrieval easier when I'm done.  I also put an old pillow case over the top of the bucket and cut a hold in the middle.  i dump the hot bullets through the hole, but the pillow case also cuts down on splash.  Lastly, I have settled on light to moderately frosty bullets for my liking.  i find that my bullet weights are more consistent if I run them hot and the powder for powder coating sticks better to the frosty finish than a smooth shiny finish and I usually only have to PC once for a nice coating.  

[ExStreetWalker]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:21 AM, Smokecloud said:

There is some Tin in wheel weights, enough that I haven't had to add any for my bullets.  When I do my smelt, to make ingots from WW, I try to use a large pot.  Its around 4 gallons and made of stainless steel.  I use it on a Turkey fryer propane cooker outside.  The thought is making as large of a batch as possible, so that the batch of alloy is consistent.  If I could smelt a 55 gallon barrel of WW to make all my alloy the same across the entire batch, I would.  I can usually get all of a 5 gallon bucket of WW into the pot.  With lead being phased out all over for WW, its getting harder and harder to find WW that still have lead in them.  Current buckets are yielding about 20-25% trash, ie Zinc, Steel, clips, etc.  I keep the temps really low for my smelt.  I like 600 deg F and try to not let it get over 650 at the most.  Zinc melts over 800, so by keeping temps low, the zinc's will simply float on the top and i scoop them off.  If I see them, I will pull them, but its so much easier to just scoop off the crud off the top after its up to temp.  After shooting LaserCast bullets for years, I like harder bullets, so I water quench all of my pistol bullets.  I put the 5 gallon bucket of water under my table, so there is no chance of water splashing up ending in my melting pot.  Place an old rag in the bottom of the bucket for two reasons, one to soften the blow to the bullets when they hit the bottom, and 2nd to make retrieval easier when I'm done.  I also put an old pillow case over the top of the bucket and cut a hold in the middle.  i dump the hot bullets through the hole, but the pillow case also cuts down on splash.  Lastly, I have settled on light to moderately frosty bullets for my liking.  i find that my bullet weights are more consistent if I run them hot and the powder for powder coating sticks better to the frosty finish than a smooth shiny finish and I usually only have to PC once for a nice coating.  

 

Ya do realize that the heat required for PC negates any hardness added by water dropping?