Understanding Shadow 2 slide milling options

[matto6]

I am thinking of putting an SRO on my Shadow 2 and trying to understand the pros and cons of the various options

1. Buy complete OR upper.   Expensive, and I don't see any for sale right now.

 

2. Have CZ custom mill for their mounting plate system.  Pros:  Flexibility, and can re-install a rear sight.   Cons:  optic sits a bit higher (?) and it's a bit uglier.

 

3. Direct mount by CGW, CZC, Primary machine.   Pros:  Cheaper and lower.   Cons:  can never reinstall a rear sight.  Or are there rear sight plates that would fit an SRO/Holosun mount?  

 

I'm leaning toward just doing a direct cut for an SRO/Holosun but would like to hear more before pulling the trigger.

I'm also confused about lightening the slide.  I really have no desire to do this, but I can't say I'm excited about the idea of a heavier slide either , once I add a dot.  Will the added weight be significant in terms of how the gun recoils?   Should I be planning to lighten enough to bring it back to stock weight, or is this not a big deal for someone relatively new?


Thanks! 

Edited January 18, 2021 by matto6

[Rnlinebacker]

Send it to CZC for $200 they do an amazing job. You can use any sight you wish to in the future. You won't regret it

[matto6]

29 minutes ago, Rnlinebacker said:

Send it to CZC for $200 they do an amazing job. You can use any sight you wish to in the future. You won't regret it

Thanks.  No real down side?    It doesn't sit higher or anything?

[jejb]

3 hours ago, matto6 said:

2. Have CZ custom mill for their mounting plate system.  Pros:  Flexibility, and can re-install a rear sight.   Cons:  optic sits a bit higher (?) and it's a bit uglier.

That gap is kind of ugly. And it does not hold the optic as securely as a direct milled slide. CZC is making some of the plates out of steel now, so that's a plus. Threads don't pull out when you're trying to torque the optic down.

Quote

I'm also confused about lightening the slide.  I really have no desire to do this, but I can't say I'm excited about the idea of a heavier slide either , once I add a dot.  Will the added weight be significant in terms of how the gun recoils?   Should I be planning to lighten enough to bring it back to stock weight, or is this not a big deal for someone relatively new?

The lightening thing was for when the Shadow 2 would not make the cut for the ISPSA Carry Optics specs. It was too heavy. Not the case anymore, ISPSA changed the specs and the S2's make the cut stock now. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by jejb

[matto6]

40 minutes ago, jejb said:

The lightening thing was for when the Shadow 2 would not make the cut for the ISPSA Carry Optics specs. It was too heavy. Not the case anymore, ISPSA changed the specs and the S2's make the cut stock now. 

Right, I realize I don't need to do it to be legal. But adding weight to the slide changes the recoil behavior of the gun. Is the weight increase not enough to worry about?

[matto6]

15 hours ago, Rnlinebacker said:

Send it to CZC for $200 they do an amazing job. You can use any sight you wish to in the future. You won't regret it

Does anyone know if CZC's milling and plate system is legal in IDPA SSP if you put the dovetail plate w/ rear sight on?    This wouldn't be for the shadow 2 (not legal regardless) but I have a Shadow 1 that I plan to use for IDPA and wonder if it'll still be legal if SSP if I remove the dot and put the rear sight plate back on.

EDIT:  To answer my own question - it seems the answer is no.  IDPA SSP doesn't allow slide cuts for sights.   Pfft.

Edited January 19, 2021 by matto6

[jejb]

14 hours ago, matto6 said:

Right, I realize I don't need to do it to be legal. But adding weight to the slide changes the recoil behavior of the gun. Is the weight increase not enough to worry about?

I'd guess the steel milled off would equal or exceed the weight of the optic, since most of them are made of aluminum. 

[reverse_edge]

Another vote for the plate system. It's a well thought out system by CZC. Plus, optics are always improving, you don't want to be stuck. 

[wdfwguy]

I've got two milled Shadows, one direct by Primary Machine, and a CZC plate setup.  To start over, I'd do the direct milling.  Although, my first choice would be an OR pistol if I could find a decent deal. 

[matto6]

10 minutes ago, wdfwguy said:

I've got two milled Shadows, one direct by Primary Machine, and a CZC plate setup.  To start over, I'd do the direct milling.  Although, my first choice would be an OR pistol if I could find a decent deal. 

Thanks.  Why do you prefer direct over the primary machine direct mill?

What makes the OR superior? Isn't a direct milled lower than the OR with plate?

Edited January 19, 2021 by matto6

[wdfwguy]

I like the look of the OR slide better, and I feel like it will have better resale value than a milled gun.  Neither is a big deal, and all three are good options.

 

Just to be clear, I prefer the Primary Machine milled slide.  It sits lower, it looks cleaner to me, and doesn't have the gap the CZC plate does.  But again, I don't think there's a better or worse, it's just personal preference.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 1/18/2021 at 9:08 PM, jejb said:

And it does not hold the optic as securely as a direct milled slide.

Internet myth that gets repeated as if it were truth with no evidence to back it up.

[Andy9]

On 1/19/2021 at 1:21 AM, matto6 said:

Does anyone know if CZC's milling and plate system is legal in IDPA SSP if you put the dovetail plate w/ rear sight on?    This wouldn't be for the shadow 2 (not legal regardless) but I have a Shadow 1 that I plan to use for IDPA and wonder if it'll still be legal if SSP if I remove the dot and put the rear sight plate back on.

EDIT:  To answer my own question - it seems the answer is no.  IDPA SSP doesn't allow slide cuts for sights.   Pfft.

For the S2, With the slide weight reduction, a few choice composite parts (grips and guide rod)  and CZC plate system it can be used in ESP and CO for IDPA.

[matto6]

1 hour ago, Andy9 said:

For the S2, With the slide weight reduction, a few choice composite parts (grips and guide rod)  and CZC plate system it can be used in ESP and CO for IDPA.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind doing that actually.   Unfortunately I run extra wide LOK grips so that doesn't help from a weight perspective.    If I go direct mount optic and SRO can I squeeze out another oz?  (gulp)

[Andy9]

52 minutes ago, matto6 said:

Yeah, I wouldn't mind doing that actually.   Unfortunately I run extra wide LOK grips so that doesn't help from a weight perspective.    If I go direct mount optic and SRO can I squeeze out another oz?  (gulp)

 

Look through this topic, it goes in to good detail and description, also pictures.

 

[Andy9]

You only need a 7% reduction in total weight.

Unlike myself, i need a 30% reduction 

 

[matto6]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:58 AM, Andy9 said:

T

 

 

Thanks Andy.  Now you've made me want to lighten the slide too and use it in IDPA CO instead of my Shadow 1. Haha.

 

Does a lightened Shadow 2 shoot the roughly the same as before lightening?  Just a bit more snap from the faster moving slide?  Or does it start to shoot more like a Shadow 1?  Because after lightening the S2 slide is now lighter than the S1 slide.  Or does it still shoot basically like an S2 becuase it's the frame weight and grip that differentiate it from the S1?

I ask because while I really love my Shadow 1, I tend to shoot the Shadow 2 a little better when shooting fast. The gun seems to be pointing in the right place more of the time.  

I could also run the Shadow 2 in USPSA and Shadow 1 in IDPA, just to get experience in both guns.  I'm relatively new to this so getting more experiences with different guns would be educational.   But it seems like a pretty poor plan given that whole muscle memory thing and all..

Edited January 23, 2021 by matto6

[Andy9]

11 hours ago, matto6 said:

I could also run the Shadow 2 in USPSA and Shadow 1 in IDPA, just to get experience in both guns.  I'm relatively new to this so getting more experiences with different guns would be educational.   But it seems like a pretty poor plan given that whole muscle memory thing and all..

 

I can't speak to how the S2 reacts yet, I just got mine and plan to send it out as I get more pennies together. I looking at the few video reviews that are out there and info that I have read on this form, I can't find a negative.  

 

I have been shooting a SP01 for a few years and have completed all the CGW / CZC upgrades and will be moving into the S2 this year. The biggest difference that I have noticed so far is the length of the barrel / slide lending it self to better accuracy, next is a slightly ergonomically better grip feel (but not so different form the SP01 - Shadow 1 to cause a problem) lastly the added weight of the wider longer frame. 

All that will be retained in lightening the slide, and you get a faster cycling rate.  

 

[matto6]

54 minutes ago, Andy9 said:

 

I can't speak to how the S2 reacts yet, I just got mine and plan to send it out as I get more pennies together. I looking at the few video reviews that are out there and info that I have read on this form, I can't find a negative.  

Who are you having do the lightening?  Where are you taking the weight off? 

 

I read this thread about taking weight off in the front vs rear and it made me pause about doing this without a more informed plan. 

 

[Andy9]

On 1/23/2021 at 9:56 AM, matto6 said:

Who are you having do the lightening?  Where are you taking the weight off? 

 

 

 

I plan on sending it to Primary Machine. They did My P09 that my son uses and i was very happy with the work!

Their S2 slide work they have been doing for 2 or 3 years, and I haven’t heard any negativity any where with what they do. At times they, they have additional slides in stock and you can by that and have 2, one stock and the other milled and set up for CO.

[matto6]

Thanks Andy.

 

 

Does anyone own a Shadow 2 with the CZ Custom multi-optic plate?   If so, would you be willing to weigh just the slide for me?

I'm trying to see how much weight is removed when using the plate mounting system.  I got a few data points off a facebook group suggesting that the slide with mounting plate was actually lighter than the direct cut, even though the direct cut sits deeper.  It could be because they cut deeper for the plate, removing steel, and replace it with lighter aluminum?  Or it was just bad data.

I ask because I might try to make 45 oz without cutting any windows.   With 10 round mags (which I have) CGW says it's possible by just cutting a bit extra below the optic.  I'm wondering if I can do the same using the CZC plate system.

Edited January 25, 2021 by matto6

[jejb]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:26 PM, matto6 said:

Thanks Andy.

 

 

Does anyone own a Shadow 2 with the CZ Custom multi-optic plate?   If so, would you be willing to weigh just the slide for me?

I'm trying to see how much weight is removed when using the plate mounting system.  I got a few data points off a facebook group suggesting that the slide with mounting plate was actually lighter than the direct cut, even though the direct cut sits deeper.  It could be because they cut deeper for the plate, removing steel, and replace it with lighter aluminum?  Or it was just bad data.

If I went the CZC RDS route, I'd opt for their new steel plates. Holds the threads better and you can torque higher. But I doubt that would make IDPA weight. 

 

Quote

I ask because I might try to make 45 oz without cutting any windows.   With 10 round mags (which I have) CGW says it's possible by just cutting a bit extra below the optic.  I'm wondering if I can do the same using the CZC plate system.

That's my goal too. CGW assures me that with their optic cut for the SRO, I will make IDPA weight. So the slide is going out today to them. 

[matto6]

4 hours ago, jejb said:

That's my goal too. CGW assures me that with their optic cut for the SRO, I will make IDPA weight. So the slide is going out today to them. 

 

I did the same thing! 

 

To avoid taking of too much weight off the slide I estimated the weight loss I wanted and asked them to take off no more than that under the optic.  I have no idea if they'll humor me with that request but we'll see. 

 

And I hope I did my math right.  I'm playing with fire here 

Edited January 27, 2021 by matto6

[PEG941]

The post above mentioned that CZ will mill the slide on a shadow 2  for an optic for 200.00.     Can someone tell me who to contact at CZ or who I make contact with.  

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, PEG941 said:

The post above mentioned that CZ will mill the slide on a shadow 2  for an optic for 200.00.     Can someone tell me who to contact at CZ or who I make contact with.  

Stuart Wong!

stuart@czcustom.com

 

Excellent Customer Service!