Atlasguy321 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) First and foremost please read and understand the rule that DEFINES CREEPING! Hate it when people don’t know the difference between creeping and jumping the timer. Anyway, does the RO have to stop you right away in order for the restart to count? If the shooter jumped the timer, the RO can’t tell you to restart the stage AFTER it’s completed right? Edited January 17 by Atlasguy321 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waktasz Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 8.3.4.1 In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course of fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and restart the competitor once the course of fire has been restored. I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away but there isn't any time limit to the above rule. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGT_Schultz Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 17 minutes ago, waktasz said: I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away You'd have to be Sleepy Joe to miss that one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DirkD Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Atlasguy321 said: First and foremost please read and understand the rule that DEFINES CREEPING! Hate it when people don’t know the difference between creeping and jumping the timer. Anyway, does the RO have to stop you right away in order for the restart to count? If the shooter jumped the timer, the RO can’t tell you to restart the stage AFTER it’s completed right? if the shooter jumped the timer, what rule says they have to stop the shooter immediately? Yes they can make you re shoot the stage, if you refuse, the shooter gets a DNF. Wasting a bunch of ammo may teach the shooter to wait to be started next time. 4 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said: You'd have to be Sleepy Joe to miss that one could be a fast stage and by the time the RO realized it, the shooter was finished with the stage. Or the RO wanted to let the shooter burn up a bunch of ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, waktasz said: 8.3.4.1 In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course of fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and restart the competitor once the course of fire has been restored. I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away but there isn't any time limit to the above rule. As soon as possible? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanb Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I’ve tried to stop a shooter before and they couldn’t hear me because they were pulling triggers and their ear pro cut out noise. They ripped off 8 shots with me yelling before I could be heard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atlasguy321 Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 33 minutes ago, Sarge said: As soon as possible? I was just thinking. I often jump the timer and everytime the RO has stopped me right away. I was just thinking if I would have any grounds to win the argument if I finish the stage without a stop Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atlasguy321 Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, waktasz said: 8.3.4.1 In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course of fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and restart the competitor once the course of fire has been restored. I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away but there isn't any time limit to the above rule. Matt..you’re so damn smart. I want to be like you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, Atlasguy321 said: I was just thinking. I often jump the timer and everytime the RO has stopped me right away. I was just thinking if I would have any grounds to win the argument if I finish the stage without a stop I suppose it would depend on if he had been trying to stop you all along? I would pretty pissed if an RO LET me finish a stage and then decided to make me reshoot it but I don’t think there is much I could do about it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schutzenmeister Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Failure to stop the shooter as quickly as possible effectively gives him a live-fire practice run at the course. If at all possible, this should be avoided. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dpatt711 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 8.3.4.1 & 8.2.2 both deal with this. Ultimately YES it MUST be re-shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dpatt711 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 17 hours ago, Atlasguy321 said: I was just thinking. I often jump the timer and everytime the RO has stopped me right away. I was just thinking if I would have any grounds to win the argument if I finish the stage without a stop You see this sometimes with incorrect start position and RO continuing with commands. It's ultimately the ROs fault because "Make Ready" should be re-issued if the competitor is in incorrect start position. Even though it's technically the ROs fault if the competitor is allowed to shoot the course they MUST re-shoot. In this case, let's say the RO was thinking it was only supposed to be a procedural, so he allows the shooter to continue. At the end of the course he is told that it is not in fact a procedural but should have been a stop + re-shoot. Despite it being the ROs fault, you must still re-shoot. If you refuse to do so you will be marked DNF on that stage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bakerjd Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 1/18/2021 at 3:38 PM, Dpatt711 said: You see this sometimes with incorrect start position and RO continuing with commands. It's ultimately the ROs fault because "Make Ready" should be re-issued if the competitor is in incorrect start position. Even though it's technically the ROs fault if the competitor is allowed to shoot the course they MUST re-shoot. In this case, let's say the RO was thinking it was only supposed to be a procedural, so he allows the shooter to continue. At the end of the course he is told that it is not in fact a procedural but should have been a stop + re-shoot. Despite it being the ROs fault, you must still re-shoot. If you refuse to do so you will be marked DNF on that stage. I watched this exact thing play out at a L2 match last year with a few very long head shot only targets. The shooter was in fact extremely pissed as they scored 2A on all 4 targets. It was definitely interesting to watch play out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malarky112 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) On 1/17/2021 at 10:50 PM, Schutzenmeister said: Failure to stop the shooter as quickly as possible effectively gives him a live-fire practice run at the course. If at all possible, this should be avoided. Yes but we all know the second run never goes as well as the first. Edited January 27 by Malarky112 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
driver8M3 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 On 1/17/2021 at 6:45 PM, Atlasguy321 said: First and foremost please read and understand the rule that DEFINES CREEPING! Hate it when people don’t know the difference between creeping and jumping the timer. Anyway, does the RO have to stop you right away in order for the restart to count? If the shooter jumped the timer, the RO can’t tell you to restart the stage AFTER it’s completed right? What does jump the timer mean? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waktasz Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Means he got a red light on the christmas tree Quote Link to post Share on other sites
driver8M3 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/26/2021 at 10:48 PM, waktasz said: Means he got a red light on the christmas tree What does that mean in USPSA? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waktasz Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Starting early just before the timer goes off Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Watson Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 There are a couple of "leaners" here. Their feet are planted but their bodies are definitely inclining towards the first shooting position between Standby and Beep. I said I would just hold the timer and let them topple over but one said "Oh, no, you have to start within 4 seconds." Rule says: "Standby This command should be followed by the start signal within 1 to 4 seconds." Just another reason I don't try to RO any more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waktasz Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 If they are leaning/falling over, you shouldn't start them, but if they are moving AS you give them the beep, it's a creeping penalty. If they start before you beep them at all, that's a false start and a reshoot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DirkD Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 On 1/28/2021 at 2:28 PM, Jim Watson said: There are a couple of "leaners" here. Their feet are planted but their bodies are definitely inclining towards the first shooting position between Standby and Beep. I said I would just hold the timer and let them topple over but one said "Oh, no, you have to start within 4 seconds." Rule says: "Standby This command should be followed by the start signal within 1 to 4 seconds." Just another reason I don't try to RO any more. You can beep them at anytime, fast beep slow beep whatever you want, they can't be moving before the beep. Long beep them, see how they like it. Rule says should not shall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UpYoursPal Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I had one jerk RO do a "Stand byBEEP" on me during a classifier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Southpaw Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 37 minutes ago, UpYoursPal said: I had one jerk RO do a "Stand byBEEP" on me during a classifier. If an RO short beeps you just don't react to the beep and RO will restart you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UpYoursPal Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, Southpaw said: If an RO short beeps you just don't react to the beep and RO will restart you. That's what I should have done. What I ACTUALLY did was react to the beep like I practiced, albeit with an incredibly rushed and poor draw. As you can probably imagine, that classifier sucked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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