Jumping the start and RO doesn’t catch you

[Nick_shoots_fast]

First and foremost please read and understand the rule that DEFINES CREEPING! Hate it when people don’t know the difference between creeping and jumping the timer. 
 

Anyway, does the RO have to stop you right away in order for the restart to count?

 

If the shooter jumped the timer, the RO can’t tell you to restart the stage AFTER it’s completed right? 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Atlasguy321

[waktasz]

8.3.4.1 In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course 
of fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start 
signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and restart 
the competitor once the course of fire has been restored. 

 

 

I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away but there isn't any time limit to the above rule. 

[SGT_Schultz]

17 minutes ago, waktasz said:

I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away

 

You'd have to be Sleepy Joe to miss that one

[DirkD]

1 hour ago, Atlasguy321 said:

First and foremost please read and understand the rule that DEFINES CREEPING! Hate it when people don’t know the difference between creeping and jumping the timer. 
 

Anyway, does the RO have to stop you right away in order for the restart to count?

 

If the shooter jumped the timer, the RO can’t tell you to restart the stage AFTER it’s completed right? 

if the shooter jumped the timer, what rule says they have to stop the shooter immediately?

Yes they can make you re shoot the stage, if you refuse, the shooter gets a DNF.

Wasting a bunch of ammo may teach the shooter to wait to be started next time.

 

4 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

You'd have to be Sleepy Joe to miss that one

could be a fast stage and by the time the RO realized it, the shooter was finished with the stage.

Or the RO wanted to let the shooter burn up a bunch of ammo.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, waktasz said:

8.3.4.1 In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course 
of fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start 
signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and restart 
the competitor once the course of fire has been restored. 

 

 

I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away but there isn't any time limit to the above rule. 

As soon as possible?

[Nathanb]

I’ve tried to stop a shooter before and they couldn’t hear me because they were pulling triggers and their ear pro cut out noise.  They ripped off 8 shots with me yelling before I could be heard 

[Nick_shoots_fast]

33 minutes ago, Sarge said:

As soon as possible?

I was just thinking. I often jump the timer and everytime the RO has stopped me right away. I was just thinking if I would have any grounds to win the argument if I finish the stage without a stop 

 

[Nick_shoots_fast]

2 hours ago, waktasz said:

8.3.4.1 In the event that a competitor begins his attempt at the course 
of fire prematurely (“false start” prior to the issuance of the start 
signal) the Range Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and restart 
the competitor once the course of fire has been restored. 

 

 

I don't know why they wouldn't stop you right away but there isn't any time limit to the above rule. 

Matt..you’re so damn smart. I want to be like you 

[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, Atlasguy321 said:

I was just thinking. I often jump the timer and everytime the RO has stopped me right away. I was just thinking if I would have any grounds to win the argument if I finish the stage without a stop 

 

I suppose it would depend on if he had been trying to stop you all along? I would pretty pissed if an RO LET me finish a stage and then decided to make me reshoot it but I don’t think there is much I could do about it

[Schutzenmeister]

Failure to stop the shooter as quickly as possible effectively gives him a live-fire practice run at the course.  If at all possible, this should be avoided.

[Dpatt711]

8.3.4.1 & 8.2.2 both deal with this. Ultimately YES it MUST be re-shot.

[Dpatt711]

 

17 hours ago, Atlasguy321 said:

I was just thinking. I often jump the timer and everytime the RO has stopped me right away. I was just thinking if I would have any grounds to win the argument if I finish the stage without a stop 

 

You see this sometimes with incorrect start position and RO continuing with commands. It's ultimately the ROs fault because "Make Ready" should be re-issued if the competitor is in incorrect start position. Even though it's technically the ROs fault if the competitor is allowed to shoot the course they MUST re-shoot.

In this case, let's say the RO was thinking it was only supposed to be a procedural, so he allows the shooter to continue. At the end of the course he is told that it is not in fact a procedural but should have been a stop + re-shoot. Despite it being the ROs fault, you must still re-shoot. If you refuse to do so you will be marked DNF on that stage. 

[Bakerjd]

On 1/18/2021 at 3:38 PM, Dpatt711 said:

 

You see this sometimes with incorrect start position and RO continuing with commands. It's ultimately the ROs fault because "Make Ready" should be re-issued if the competitor is in incorrect start position. Even though it's technically the ROs fault if the competitor is allowed to shoot the course they MUST re-shoot.

In this case, let's say the RO was thinking it was only supposed to be a procedural, so he allows the shooter to continue. At the end of the course he is told that it is not in fact a procedural but should have been a stop + re-shoot. Despite it being the ROs fault, you must still re-shoot. If you refuse to do so you will be marked DNF on that stage. 

I watched this exact thing play out at a L2 match last year with a few very long head shot only targets. The shooter was in fact extremely pissed as they scored 2A on all 4 targets. It was definitely interesting to watch play out. 

[Malarky112]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:50 PM, Schutzenmeister said:

Failure to stop the shooter as quickly as possible effectively gives him a live-fire practice run at the course.  If at all possible, this should be avoided.

Yes but we all know the second run never goes as well as the first. 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Malarky112

[driver8M3]

On 1/17/2021 at 6:45 PM, Atlasguy321 said:

First and foremost please read and understand the rule that DEFINES CREEPING! Hate it when people don’t know the difference between creeping and jumping the timer. 
 

Anyway, does the RO have to stop you right away in order for the restart to count?

 

If the shooter jumped the timer, the RO can’t tell you to restart the stage AFTER it’s completed right? 

What does jump the timer mean?

[waktasz]

Means he got a red light on the christmas tree

 

[driver8M3]

On 1/26/2021 at 10:48 PM, waktasz said:

Means he got a red light on the christmas tree

 

What does that mean in USPSA?

[waktasz]

Starting early just before the timer goes off

[Jim Watson]

There are a couple of "leaners" here.  

Their feet are planted but their bodies are definitely inclining towards the first shooting position between Standby and Beep.

I said I would just hold the timer and let them topple over but one said "Oh, no, you have to start within 4 seconds."

Rule says:   

"Standby

This command should be followed by the start signal within 1 to 4 seconds."

 

Just another reason I don't try to RO any more.

 

[waktasz]

If they are leaning/falling over, you shouldn't start them, but if they are moving AS you give them the beep, it's a creeping penalty. If they start before you beep them at all, that's a false start and a reshoot. 

[DirkD]

On 1/28/2021 at 2:28 PM, Jim Watson said:

There are a couple of "leaners" here.  

Their feet are planted but their bodies are definitely inclining towards the first shooting position between Standby and Beep.

I said I would just hold the timer and let them topple over but one said "Oh, no, you have to start within 4 seconds."

Rule says:   

"Standby

This command should be followed by the start signal within 1 to 4 seconds."

 

Just another reason I don't try to RO any more.

 

You can beep them at anytime,  fast beep slow beep whatever you want, they can't be moving before the beep.

 

Long beep them, see how they like it.

 

Rule says should not shall.

 

 

[UpYoursPal]

I had one jerk RO do a "Stand byBEEP" on me during a classifier.  

[Southpaw]

37 minutes ago, UpYoursPal said:

I had one jerk RO do a "Stand byBEEP" on me during a classifier.  

 

If an RO short beeps you just don't react to the beep and RO will restart you.

[UpYoursPal]

3 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

 

If an RO short beeps you just don't react to the beep and RO will restart you.

That's what I should have done.  What I ACTUALLY did was react to the beep like I practiced, albeit with an incredibly rushed and poor draw.  As you can probably imagine, that classifier sucked.