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USPSA RO certification


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3 hours ago, Ted Murphy said:

Thats a good reason for charging a nominal fee. People are more likely to show up if. 


Agreed, though why not charge a fee but give a full refund if they pass the course.
That’s an incentive to show up and to pass.

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2 hours ago, BritinUSA said:


Agreed, though why not charge a fee but give a full refund if they pass the course.
That’s an incentive to show up and to pass.

That would lead to RO’s expecting an incentive to recert every year. And let’s face it, a GOOD, experienced RO is more valuable than an FNG. 

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2 hours ago, BritinUSA said:


Agreed, though why not charge a fee but give a full refund if they pass the course.
That’s an incentive to show up and to pass.


nothing. Except its a lot of work to keep track of when people get their test results back. MD’s are volunteers too. 
 

plus in my case, the class I hosted last year was nearly all shooters from other clubs. That would be difficult to explain to the club’s board why I paid  back people who do not help out at my club. 

Edited by Ted Murphy
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I think there's more both sides can do to incentivize  shooters to take the RO class. Our Local Club, the Brazosland Pistoleros, is scheduling a Level 3 associated seminar. USPSA covers part of the cost of that with NROI. The club will also reimburse anyone that takes the class if they work the Area 4 Steel Challenge match. That's in addition to the standard RO package (Entry, Stipend, Shirt, Lunch, Brass etc.). 

I agree that USPSA should provide a more significant investment in training staff. Ideally I'd like to see a policy of, upon request, a club may receive 1 free RO seminar every x years for up to y shooters. Spitballing I'd like 5 years, 20 shooters but you get the idea. That would go a heck of a long way for providing incentive for clubs to support USPSA and USPSA to give back tangible benefits to the club. 

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6 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:

I think there's more both sides can do to incentivize  shooters to take the RO class. Our Local Club, the Brazosland Pistoleros, is scheduling a Level 3 associated seminar. USPSA covers part of the cost of that with NROI. The club will also reimburse anyone that takes the class if they work the Area 4 Steel Challenge match. That's in addition to the standard RO package (Entry, Stipend, Shirt, Lunch, Brass etc.). 

I agree that USPSA should provide a more significant investment in training staff. Ideally I'd like to see a policy of, upon request, a club may receive 1 free RO seminar every x years for up to y shooters. Spitballing I'd like 5 years, 20 shooters but you get the idea. That would go a heck of a long way for providing incentive for clubs to support USPSA and USPSA to give back tangible benefits to the club. 

That is a great idea. We need forward thinking that embraces new and exciting concepts to see growth within the organization, especially in these challenging times. 

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On 4/7/2021 at 9:58 PM, Ted Murphy said:

Thats a good reason for charging a nominal fee. People are more likely to show up if. 

The guys that were running them had no interest in charging a fee as it was all local, it had been suggested but wasn't acted on. May well happen in the future to see if it works.

 

We don't run RO courses as a club thing they are all run by our NROI, no one gets paid as I said its all locals that attend the students do the travelling to the seminar.

 

Our National chief does travel to the other states and runs them there but not sure how that works but I'd assume his airfares/ travel is paid for and his accommodation may well be with hosts rather than hotel. 

Edited by terrydoc
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  • 6 months later...

I’d like to re-cert to help out at my area match again next year, but my certification lapsed over the past 18months due to not being involved because of covid and all.  
 

If I could do it online again, I’d do it, but not interested in paying to sit through that class again.  I just won’t be able to RO my area match I guess. 

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10 minutes ago, CTJer said:

I’d like to re-cert to help out at my area match again next year, but my certification lapsed over the past 18months due to not being involved because of covid and all.  
 

If I could do it online again, I’d do it, but not interested in paying to sit through that class again.  I just won’t be able to RO my area match I guess. 

It has to be lapsed for a while before you can't recertify online.

 

😎 If you have been expired for more than six months, you'll need to take the long version of the exam as per NROI policy. The system will notify you of this, and you will have to contact dnroi@uspsa.org to have your exam reset.  Officials expired for more than a year may be required to take the seminar again. Keeping your NROI work history current may help in this regard.

 

Note that the above says you *may* be required to take the seminar again if you have been expired more than a year. You may well not be required, especially if you have worked alot of area matches. I would contact Troy and/or your local RMI who has worked with you.

 

Out here in the west most of us were more involved than ever (and shot and traveled more than ever) over the last 18 months.

Edited by motosapiens
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1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

It has to be lapsed for a while before you can't recertify online.

 

😎 If you have been expired for more than six months, you'll need to take the long version of the exam as per NROI policy. The system will notify you of this, and you will have to contact dnroi@uspsa.org to have your exam reset.  Officials expired for more than a year may be required to take the seminar again. Keeping your NROI work history current may help in this regard.

 

Note that the above says you *may* be required to take the seminar again if you have been expired more than a year. You may well not be required, especially if you have worked alot of area matches. I would contact Troy and/or your local RMI who has worked with you.

 

Out here in the west most of us were more involved than ever (and shot and traveled more than ever) over the last 18 months.

Well, I read that and figured it was lapsed for a year so I was SOL.  
 

Worth an email to NROI I guess.  
 

 

thanks. 

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4 hours ago, CTJer said:

I’d like to re-cert to help out at my area match again next year, but my certification lapsed over the past 18months due to not being involved because of covid and all.  
 

If I could do it online again, I’d do it, but not interested in paying to sit through that class again.  I just won’t be able to RO my area match I guess. 

I agree; similar situation here.  After chemo and radiation treatment, I was shot (not literally, but it felt like it) for many months.  

 

I've since returned to the sport and I RO at level 1, but I really don't want to pay to sit through the course again.  

Edited by varminter22
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28 minutes ago, varminter22 said:

I agree; similar situation here.  After chemo and radiation treatment, I was shot (not literally, but it felt like it) for many months.  

 

I've since returned to the sport and I RO at level 1, but I really don't want to pay to sit through the course again.  

Well, I emailed Troy right after this post and he replied back with the long version of the online.  
 

I was working mandatory 80+hr weeks for 2020 into this year.  I just didn’t have time to think about much else.  
 

I’m glad he gave me the opportunity to retest and I plan on working/RO’ing my area match come the time. 

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On 10/27/2021 at 9:35 PM, CTJer said:

Well, I emailed Troy right after this post and he replied back with the long version of the online.  
 

I was working mandatory 80+hr weeks for 2020 into this year.  I just didn’t have time to think about much else.  
 

I’m glad he gave me the opportunity to retest and I plan on working/RO’ing my area match come the time. 

 

3 hours ago, varminter22 said:

Same here!  Am now recertified.  

 

That is great news! I'm very glad you were both able to recertify without unnecessary obstacles, and continue being part of the sport.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have two thoughts on the whole RO class thing. And have emailed NROI and USPSA about both durring the recent membership meeting stuff durring the latest nats. 

 

First point is that the class itself IMO is absolutely useless at teaching an RO how to take the book of rules and apply it in real life while being safe and ensuring the safety of the shooter, themself and the rest of the squad. At least at my RO class we spent 75% of the class in a classroom going through the rule book which is IMO not really what the in person class should be. We then spent the other 25% outside on the range with each person being the RO for someone else. You basicly got one go as the RO on an extremely simple limited movement stage. And a lot of the time was spent right questions on scoring. That just not what the class portion should be. It should be all outside on the range spent running shooters though actual courses with movement, walls, barriers ect. Something to help the new RO figure out how to be able to move through the stage without impeding the shooter, and being able to do the duties of the RO. The part of the class that is going through the rule book can be done with online or video segments that NROI has setup and you log on and it explains rules, how to go through the rule book and get the information needed. This will do a few things. Get exactly the same information out to anyone who becomes an RO. Get the correct information out. And save a time spent dealing with it at the actually in person class. 

 

My second issue is how clubs perceive it as bad that people outside that club come take the class. And use the excuse that it doesn't "help" that club out. I just don't get this thought process. In my local area we have enough shooters and clubs that you can shoot every weekend and on some weekends shoot two matches if you want. At every match it's normally the usual people and some new shooters or people who come and go. Their are plenty of ROs and those who have the ability to RO but don't have the certificate due to work schedules or what ever. The duty gets passed through the squad as the next shooter is up. I believe this is pretty much the norm everywhere. So for me it really doesn't matter what club someone took the class at as they will be an RO at any club they shoot at thus helping out every club in the local area and beyond. 

 

My third thing is money, I honeslty feel that USPSA has had a bad habit of bending over to pick up the penny while leaving the dollars on the table per say. I shoot about 6-8 majors a season and see the same peope doing the RO duties at almost all of them. If USPSA got rid of the cost for the individual person along with some adjustment to how the class is structured I think a lot more people would get the certification. For me it's almost impossible to take a RO class as I work M-F night shift. The class is 2 days and trying to either stay up to get to the class on Saturday or get some sleep and wake up at an odd time is not easy. If the class was done online/in person and was reduced to one day in person I think it would help out a lot of people. 

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4 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

I have two thoughts on the whole RO class thing. And have emailed NROI and USPSA about both durring the recent membership meeting stuff durring the latest nats. 

 

First point is that the class itself IMO is absolutely useless at teaching an RO how to take the book of rules and apply it in real life while being safe and ensuring the safety of the shooter, themself and the rest of the squad. At least at my RO class we spent 75% of the class in a classroom going through the rule book which is IMO not really what the in person class should be. We then spent the other 25% outside on the range with each person being the RO for someone else. You basicly got one go as the RO on an extremely simple limited movement stage. And a lot of the time was spent right questions on scoring. That just not what the class portion should be. It should be all outside on the range spent running shooters though actual courses with movement, walls, barriers ect. Something to help the new RO figure out how to be able to move through the stage without impeding the shooter, and being able to do the duties of the RO. The part of the class that is going through the rule book can be done with online or video segments that NROI has setup and you log on and it explains rules, how to go through the rule book and get the information needed. This will do a few things. Get exactly the same information out to anyone who becomes an RO. Get the correct information out. And save a time spent dealing with it at the actually in person class. 

 

My second issue is how clubs perceive it as bad that people outside that club come take the class. And use the excuse that it doesn't "help" that club out. I just don't get this thought process. In my local area we have enough shooters and clubs that you can shoot every weekend and on some weekends shoot two matches if you want. At every match it's normally the usual people and some new shooters or people who come and go. Their are plenty of ROs and those who have the ability to RO but don't have the certificate due to work schedules or what ever. The duty gets passed through the squad as the next shooter is up. I believe this is pretty much the norm everywhere. So for me it really doesn't matter what club someone took the class at as they will be an RO at any club they shoot at thus helping out every club in the local area and beyond. 

 

My third thing is money, I honeslty feel that USPSA has had a bad habit of bending over to pick up the penny while leaving the dollars on the table per say. I shoot about 6-8 majors a season and see the same peope doing the RO duties at almost all of them. If USPSA got rid of the cost for the individual person along with some adjustment to how the class is structured I think a lot more people would get the certification. For me it's almost impossible to take a RO class as I work M-F night shift. The class is 2 days and trying to either stay up to get to the class on Saturday or get some sleep and wake up at an odd time is not easy. If the class was done online/in person and was reduced to one day in person I think it would help out a lot of people. 

Basically I disagree with all of that. The course as currently structured takes the student through the rule book in some detail including interpretation of rules that are not completely clear. It teaches you to continually use the book to learn the rules in more and more detail. The range section of the class only teaches proper use of range commands and evaluates your loudness and ability to focus on the gun and safety if you are the timer RO.

 

You actually learn to RO by doing it at local matches and taking advice from from more experienced RO's in that practice. This class could never be the end all of being an RO unless it lasted 6 months.

 

Clearly we have good and bad RO's. I have no idea what the answer to that is. We had good and bad students in school also.  The bad ones are bad because they don't care, don't know what they don't know and never did, or are just dumb. I have no answer for that. Its human nature but it isn't good.

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6 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

At least at my RO class we spent 75% of the class in a classroom going through the rule book which is IMO not really what the in person class should be. We then spent the other 25% outside on the range with each person being the RO for someone else.

 

I think this probably depends on the instructor. I don't recall exactly how it was broken down, but we had substantial time at an indoor range with both blue guns and real guns (afternoon of day 1, most of day 2, maybe?) before we went outside. On the indoor range, the instructor gave the shooter a prompt in secret for some violation or another. With the blue gun, I drew and started making ready before being given the command. In live fire, I foot faulted on a few shots toward the end of the indoor stage.

 

We used the outdoor component to talk about positioning and efficient movement through a stage.

 

6 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

My second issue is how clubs perceive it as bad that people outside that club come take the class. And use the excuse that it doesn't "help" that club out.

 

I didn't experience this, but you're certainly right that it's a problem, if it's happening.

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4 hours ago, Brooke said:

Basically I disagree with all of that.

Me too. I found the RO course to be informative, but it is of necessity limited in the amount of depth by the time. Where I really learned what I was doing was working big matches with experienced CRO's.

 

The reason we see the same people working so many matches is not because they are the only ones certified. I know dozens of certified RO's who help run our local matches but simply choose not to work big matches. For most of them it seems to simply be the time commitment away from their work or families. That's fine with me because those of us who choose to work more matches generally enjoy it and find it worthwhile.

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4 hours ago, Brooke said:

Basically I disagree with all of that.

Like brooke and motosapiens, I also basically disagree with all of that.  

 

And as a matter of curiosity, I found your statement (quoted below) interesting.  In my experience, most RO classes are conducted on a weekend and most major matches are held on weekends.  In view of your work schedule, how on earth are you able to arise and shoot major matches yet unable to arise for an RO class?  

QUOTE

I shoot about 6-8 majors a season and see the same peope doing the RO duties at almost all of them. If USPSA got rid of the cost for the individual person along with some adjustment to how the class is structured I think a lot more people would get the certification. For me it's almost impossible to take a RO class as I work M-F night shift. The class is 2 days and trying to either stay up to get to the class on Saturday or get some sleep and wake up at an odd time is not easy.

UNQUOTE

 

As to the cost of the class, perhaps more clubs could subsidize all or at least a significan portion of the costs.  That is what we did here (years ago) when we affiliated and began hosting matches.  

Edited by varminter22
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10 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

I shoot about 6-8 majors a season and see the same peope doing the RO duties at almost all of them. If USPSA got rid of the cost for the individual person along with some adjustment to how the class is structured I think a lot more people would get the certification

 

I am not sure what the same people providing RO/CRO duties for majors has anything to do with the discussion of how training new ROs should be structured/paid/scheduled.  

 

 

 

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As for funds… most ADs have funds to help with a class… I know some of the classes I sponsored I got money from my AD..

 

as for time— there is another thing some may overlook… in person training , even poor training can meet a LEGAL guideline for being trained… at least in Union camps— you went to the class? You are responsible for the material… that might also have a little bit to do with it..

 

If I had a real say about it, I would make RO a mentorship approach.. take an online test… then have signoff by some combination of RM, RMI,SC,AD, CRO… 

then— we could have more.. but maybe even add IRO… And some kind of advanced CRO.. 

RO and CRO.. would stay.. but an advanced CRO could RM a level 2… an interim RO, could not work a stage alone… 

 

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16 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I am not sure what the same people providing RO/CRO duties for majors has anything to do with the discussion of how training new ROs should be structured/paid/scheduled.  

 

 

 

My thought process is that these people seem to be asked over and over again because there is a limited ammount of people able to do it. 

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I'll never understand why USPSA doesn't just put the r.o. course on video like the entire non shooting sports world has been doing with more complex subjects for the last 40 years or so. Many here have likely been to OSHA contractor safety training or other work related safety training, video training + someone generally knowledgable with the subject to do the short field verification just flat out works. 

Edited by IHAVEGAS
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5 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

My thought process is that these people seem to be asked over and over again because there is a limited ammount of people able to do it. 

usually they volunteer because they like it, and for the free match and whatever other benefits the MD offers. big matches like nationals and some area matches are pretty selective about who they will let work, and there are typically more people desiring to work than there are spots available to work. 

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2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

I'll never understand why USPSA doesn't just put the r.o. course on video like the entire non shooting sports world has been doing with more complex subjects for the last 40 years or so. Many here have likely been to OSHA contractor safety training or other work related safety training, video training + someone generally knowledgable with the subject to do the short field verification just flat out works. 

I would strongly support that.

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2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

I'll never understand why USPSA doesn't just put the r.o. course on video like the entire non shooting sports world has been doing with more complex subjects for the last 40 years or so. Many here have likely been to OSHA contractor safety training or other work related safety training, video training + someone generally knowledgable with the subject to do the short field verification just flat out works. 

This idea has some potential. If it were me, I would have the 'short field verification' consist of working a match under supervision of a certified CRO or RM. Could even be a local match with embedded RO's as long as the subject runs the timer 30-50% of the time.

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