Elite Limited Open Conversion - Finally!

[CompleteJack]

After waiting impatiently to convert my Elite Limited into a proper open gun I finally got her put together! 

 

The latchkey part I was waiting on was the @PatriotDefense threaded coned barrel, and it seems to fit like a dream. While they had my gun I also had them give it a slide lightening cut, which also turned out amazingly. Great work on their part for only having my gun 3 weeks! 

 

Here's her parts list: 

Tanfoglio Elite Limited

Patriot Defense Barrel

EGW Titanium Comp (modified by PD)

Henning Flat Trigger

Henning Grips

Taylor Freelance Mag Extensions

 

I call her my SHINY AND CHROME WITNESS in honor of Mad Max Fury Road, open to suggestions for a real name

 

I picked up a handful of PD's hybrid recoil springs too, so we'll see if I can't get her cycling when I finally get to take her out this weekend. I'll report on that as soon as I can.

 

She may not be the sleekest open conversion out there with the weaver mount, but hey, she's mine!

Edited January 6, 2021 by CompleteJack

[regor]

Is that first photo pre-assembly or is the comp actually angled downwards? 

[CompleteJack]

6 minutes ago, regor said:

Is that first photo pre-assembly or is the comp actually angled downwards? 

It is angled slightly downwards. I had to take the barrel out just now and look down it to make sure it wasn't the comp set crooked, but I think the whole barrel must point slightly downward when it locks up.

[regor]

28 minutes ago, CompleteJack said:

It is angled slightly downwards. I had to take the barrel out just now and look down it to make sure it wasn't the comp set crooked, but I think the whole barrel must point slightly downward when it locks up.

Interesting. I hope you have enough elevation adjustment with the C-More to zero it! 

[CompleteJack]

1 minute ago, regor said:

Interesting. I hope you have enough elevation adjustment with the C-More to zero it! 

Knowing C-Mores I'll be fine, although I have been thinking about switching to Holosun 510c...

[hiker88]

9mm or 40?

[CompleteJack]

1 minute ago, hiker88 said:

9mm or 40?

9mm

[hiker88]

3 minutes ago, CompleteJack said:

9mm

Congrats... looking to do the same but with a CZ platform

[zombywoof]

How does it shoot?

[shred]

17 hours ago, CompleteJack said:

It is angled slightly downwards. I had to take the barrel out just now and look down it to make sure it wasn't the comp set crooked, but I think the whole barrel must point slightly downward when it locks up.

They do, by a degree or two, similar to 1911s.  It needs to move somewhere to get the lugs engaged and locking up with a slight downward tilt means you can use a shorter front sight (mentioned as an advantage in the 1911 patent, I guess the old SAA sights were getting hung up sometimes.)

 

[CompleteJack]

1 hour ago, shred said:

They do, by a degree or two, similar to 1911s.  It needs to move somewhere to get the lugs engaged and locking up with a slight downward tilt means you can use a shorter front sight (mentioned as an advantage in the 1911 patent, I guess the old SAA sights were getting hung up sometimes.)

 

That's really interesting. Yeah, I did some more looking, and it definitely looks like it only tilts downwards just as it locks up. I never figured that sight height would be a reason to modify an action, but that's the 1900s for ya.

 

4 hours ago, zombywoof said:

How does it shoot?

I'll let you know this weekend, it's still dark much too early for me to swing by the range on my way home.

[regor]

20 hours ago, CompleteJack said:

Knowing C-Mores I'll be fine, although I have been thinking about switching to Holosun 510c...

 

My Czechmate came with a C-More slide ride, and I milled the OEM mount to take the 510c and actually had to shim the front to bring it up a bit since it was angled too far down and even when maxing out elevation I couldn't get the 17 yard zero I was looking for. I just went to Harbor Freight and bought a cheap set of feeler gauges and cannibalized the size I needed to shim with. Yours is mounted a fair bit higher, so who knows if it will play nicely, but I know of two other local shooters running different 2011 mounts who both had to shim their 510cs to get the zero they wanted. IIRC both had to shim the front up, so maybe the downward angled barrel will actually help you out there. 

[CompleteJack]

3 minutes ago, regor said:

 

My Czechmate came with a C-More slide ride, and I milled the OEM mount to take the 510c and actually had to shim the front to bring it up a bit since it was angled too far down and even when maxing out elevation I couldn't get the 17 yard zero I was looking for. I just went to Harbor Freight and bought a cheap set of feeler gauges and cannibalized the size I needed to shim with. Yours is mounted a fair bit higher, so who knows if it will play nicely, but I know of two other local shooters running different 2011 mounts who both had to shim their 510cs to get the zero they wanted. IIRC both had to shim the front up, so maybe the downward angled barrel will actually help you out there. 

C-More advertises Railways as having 800 MOA of windage and elevation, and judging by how much the dot moves when I turn the adjustment screws I believe them. Every time I nudge the screws it goes like 20 MOA in that direction. Thank goodness they have set screws! 

[regor]

7 minutes ago, CompleteJack said:

C-More advertises Railways as having 800 MOA of windage and elevation, and judging by how much the dot moves when I turn the adjustment screws I believe them. Every time I nudge the screws it goes like 20 MOA in that direction. Thank goodness they have set screws! 

Yep, based on the variety of firearms and bore offsets I have seen them on I definitely believe it. 510c is only 100 MOA. 

[shred]

6 hours ago, CompleteJack said:

That's really interesting. Yeah, I did some more looking, and it definitely looks like it only tilts downwards just as it locks up. I never figured that sight height would be a reason to modify an action, but that's the 1900s for ya.

 

I'll let you know this weekend, it's still dark much too early for me to swing by the range on my way home.

It's not so much a modification as making that sort of locked-breech work without having two timed links in the system like the Colt 1905; something has to tilt.  Where that tilt ends up is a choice of the designer.  IIRC CZ's don't tilt down when locked up as much as 1911s, but they do tilt.

 

2011 Open builders for a long time either put a 1-degree tilt into the scope mount or scope mount screw holes to compensate (it's good to know which when buying scope mounts to keep things centered).  There are also jigs to lock the barrel and slide together and mill them as one to "hide the decline" and make them look parallel.

 

 

[CompleteJack]

Update:

 

I got impatient and swung out to the range on my way to work this morning. I got myself all worked up yesterday reading threads of people sticking comps on 9 minor guns only to hit a sweet spot where they needed a light recoil spring to get the slide to cycle back all the way, but then the spring would be too light to effectively feed rounds from the magazine and go into battery all the way. Hand cycling rounds yesterday by hitting the slide release I had some troubles at first with rounds sticking when they had only fed about halfway into the chamber with the lighter recoil springs, but that problem also seemed to improve as I kept doing that throughout the day, so I guess the feed ramp just needed a little wearing in.

 

So this morning I put in the 11lb Patriot Defense Hybrid recoil spring and set out to zero my C-More and diagnose any cycling issues I might have. Turns out it runs like a top! To my relief, I ran two 28 round magazines of Federal and CCI 115gr factory ammo through it and got it zeroed this morning without a hitch. It's probably in large part the fact that I chose the EGW Bianchi Cup/Steel Challenge compensator instead of a 9 Major comp. I was paying especially close attention to see if any of the rounds felt sluggish going into battery, but it was smooth as could be the whole time (to my relief). And talk about recoil reduction, between the lightened slide and the comp it's ridiculously flat shooting!

 

Now I'm going to try some of the lighter recoil springs, because the one thing I did notice was that I was pulling about 1/5th of my shots low, which could just be me acclimating to the lower recoil and driving the gun down, but I think more likely it's the heavier recoil spring slapping forward and making the gun return low instead of returning to zero perfectly. I have 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8lb springs to play with so I'm going to see if it still feeds reliably with a lighter spring. At this point I'm just supremely relieved that worst case scenario it will cycle reliably with the 11lb spring so even if the lighter springs are too weak I can just adjust my grip and cadence to get used to the new recoil impulse.

 

Also running the charging handle off the left side it didn't hit my thumb resting on the safety, so I can put those fears to rest too.

 

All in all I'm extremely happy with the work @PatriotDefensedid, and I highly recommend this as an option to anybody looking to convert their Limited Custom or Elite Limited to an Open gun.

[FALAR]

On 1/7/2021 at 10:31 AM, shred said:

They do, by a degree or two, similar to 1911s.  It needs to move somewhere to get the lugs engaged and locking up with a slight downward tilt means you can use a shorter front sight (mentioned as an advantage in the 1911 patent, I guess the old SAA sights were getting hung up sometimes.)

 

 

This is correct.  If you look closely at the barrel hood/ejection port area it is visible to the eye how 1911s and CZ75s and their derivatives are slightly angled down at lock up.

 

When you lock the slide to the rear and the barrel is free then it will be perfectly horizontal.

 

This is in contrast to all the later pistols using the Browning Recoil Operated principle that  forego locking lugs on top of the barrel and instead cut an angle there and have a locking piece in the frame for the barrel to interface with.  This is the style seen in the SIG P22X, Glocks, HK USP/P2000/P30/Mark 23, etc.  In these guns the barrel is horizontal at lock up and when the slide cycles and the barrel unlocks the barrel will be angled upwards.

[MikeBurgess]

the barrels on both 19/2011 and Tanfo/CZ point down when in battery the big difference is on the 19/2011 the top of the slide is also at an angle (~1/2deg) so the barrel appears to to be at a much smaller angle. I have a couple old factory Tanfoglio comps and a Gold team barrel, those comps are all bored at an angle so the comp is level with the slide when in battery.