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Stock 2 mag issue


Bakerjd

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All new 9mm mags with grams guts and Henning 140mm base pads. If I load them to 22 rounds the bottom 2 jam up. They are stuck against each other. What is the fix for this? I'm very new to tanfo quirks.

 

Thank you,

Josh

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Well that didnt work. Loading anything past 8 rounds and rounds rattle in the mag. Load to 20 there is a rattle but can run them out of the mag just fine. Load 22 and follower falls over with round between follower and mag body. Indontbeven have this issue with STI untuned mags that I've dropped 100 times on concrete. 

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Easiest fix: load to 20 and get a MBX for your 'big stick'.

 

The root problem is the mag narrowing ribs stop before the Henning pad starts.   That widens the tube up enough that rounds can and do stack side by side.  Examine one jammed up and you'll always see the jammed pair just below the end of the ribs.

Fooling with springs and followers can reduce it, but won't be a complete fix. 

 

This same problem was a thing in old two-rib STI mags with +2 and +3 pads on them-- as soon as rounds get below the ribs, bad things happen.  It's why there are STI big sticks and not +6 basepads for STIs.

 

You can extend the ribs down by punching or welding or sticking a shim on the inside as well.  Arredondo used to make a little plastic gizmo that extended them in STI tubes, but I doubt it fits Tanfos.

 

CZ's and small-frames don't have this problem since they use narrower mags.

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36 minutes ago, shred said:

Easiest fix: load to 20 and get a MBX for your 'big stick'.

 

The root problem is the mag narrowing ribs stop before the Henning pad starts.   That widens the tube up enough that rounds can and do stack side by side.  Examine one jammed up and you'll always see the jammed pair just below the end of the ribs.

Fooling with springs and followers can reduce it, but won't be a complete fix. 

 

This same problem was a thing in old two-rib STI mags with +2 and +3 pads on them-- as soon as rounds get below the ribs, bad things happen.  It's why there are STI big sticks and not +7 basepads.

 

You can extend the ribs down by punching or welding or sticking a shim on the inside as well.  Arredondo used to make a little plastic gizmo that extended them in STI tubes, but I doubt it fits Tanfos.

 

CZ's and small-frames don't have this problem since they use narrower mags.

Yep I see exaclty what you describe in my mags. I've got two so far that are kind of working with just running them in/out of the mag by hand or racking them out of the gun. I haven't live fired them yet. I'm fairly capable with fab work and may try to make a little shim. I doubt I can bend the rib into the mags. 

 

Are the MBX mags actually reliable? I see mixed reviews and mixed personal experiences with their mags in the 2011 world. 

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@shred did a lot more digging on the forum and found some people mentioning that the K9 mags, the ones I bought and the one that came with the pistol had this issue but the Mecgar ones didnt. To me from pictures online they look identical except for the nomenclature stamped into the mag. Also the only place I could find them were at BSPS. What are your thoughts on them? 

 

Also i had some jb weld in the gun room and decided to take one of the mags and apply it below where the ribs stop in the mag. Once it cures I plan to sand/shape it to match the ribs. Not sure if this idea will work but hey worst case I sand it off and have lost nothing but my time. 

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I have been running K-9’s and K-40’s with Henning extensions and grams guts for a few years with no issues. 
 

the follower needs to be tilted to the right a few degrees to function properly.  I believe there is mention of this on Henning’s retail site located where you would buy the spring and follower, from what I recall

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I tried them all when I ran a CO LimPro for 2 years and ~30,000 rounds.  The only real solution for 9mm in ribbed Tanfo mags (K9 or  Mecgar or whatever) is to extend the ribs somehow.  Once you do that, they work fine.   A hammer, close-fitting block and 1/8" steel punch works in a pinch.  Spring and follower tweaks were never completely reliable.   

I tuned an MBX tube and it works, but I've heard mixed reviews and don't even know if they are making them at the moment..

 

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2 hours ago, shred said:

I tried them all when I ran a CO LimPro for 2 years and ~30,000 rounds.  The only real solution for 9mm in ribbed Tanfo mags (K9 or  Mecgar or whatever) is to extend the ribs somehow.  Once you do that, they work fine.   A hammer, close-fitting block and 1/8" steel punch works in a pinch.  Spring and follower tweaks were never completely reliable.   

I tuned an MBX tube and it works, but I've heard mixed reviews and don't even know if they are making them at the moment..

 

Thank you for the explanation.  I couldn’t figure out what was going on as it seemed to be a combination of follower and extension.   I see the exact same issue with extensions if I use the grams follower but I have no issues with this standard follower except that I lose capacity.  I have one +10 extension which runs fine with the standard follower also.  
Pushing the grams follower beyond the ribs caused the problem but using the standard follower seems to work fine. 
 

I am interested if a U-shaped shim would fix the problem.  Basically creating a shim for the spring to sit on with the legs taking up the space on the sides in stead of modifying the tube?

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7 hours ago, KlausN said:

Thank you for the explanation.  I couldn’t figure out what was going on as it seemed to be a combination of follower and extension.   I see the exact same issue with extensions if I use the grams follower but I have no issues with this standard follower except that I lose capacity.  I have one +10 extension which runs fine with the standard follower also.  
Pushing the grams follower beyond the ribs caused the problem but using the standard follower seems to work fine. 
 

I am interested if a U-shaped shim would fix the problem.  Basically creating a shim for the spring to sit on with the legs taking up the space on the sides in stead of modifying the tube?

Interesting idea on that "shim". Arredondo made them for the old Para mags. I think I have one laying around. Wonder if it would fit? 

 

Sanded down my jb weld job.... seems good while just racking the rounds out of the pistol. I am going to try and make it to the range this week before work sometime. Will update what the outcome is. 

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Para mags are wide, but the Arredondo shim did also fit STI tubes-- Dawson used them in his STI "just right" kit way back in the day for this reason.  I 3D printed one as an experiment for the Tanfo and it seemed to work, but it was fragile and annoying when removing the basepads so I switched to an arbor press and dies to stomp the ribs longer (you probably only have to do the rear one) and all is well.

 

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I tried the JB weld trick to extend the internal ribs. Easy peasy. I loaded to 23 rounds which I’ve never been able to do. I’m going to try them out at a match tomorrow morning. Thanks for the idea!

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On 1/9/2021 at 11:15 PM, N7VY said:

I tried the JB weld trick to extend the internal ribs. Easy peasy. I loaded to 23 rounds which I’ve never been able to do. I’m going to try them out at a match tomorrow morning. Thanks for the idea!

So far so good on my end. Little time consuming but it ran 100% at today's steel Challange match. Sadly I didnt run so well. Cant complain though. First match with the new gun and belt setup. Forgot to reload between runs a couple times, getting used to the first pull being DA and then SA is way different then a 1911 setup. But man it was a blast. I havent had this much fun shooting a match in probably a year.

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On 1/5/2021 at 4:52 PM, shred said:

Para mags are wide, but the Arredondo shim did also fit STI tubes-- Dawson used them in his STI "just right" kit way back in the day for this reason.  I 3D printed one as an experiment for the Tanfo and it seemed to work, but it was fragile and annoying when removing the basepads so I switched to an arbor press and dies to stomp the ribs longer (you probably only have to do the rear one) and all is well.

 

I do have access to a Arbor press at the shop...

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I have many of the Henning extensions and here is what I found works to solve this problem. 
 

1. straighten the spring where it is attached to the follower so the follower is slightly angled towards the spring coil side.

2. load no more than 22 rounds of 9mm and 18 of 40sw. 
 

After doing this many thousands of rounds of ammo have passed through these mags with zero failures. 
 

the problem is the follower flips into the non-coil side when it gets past 17-18 rounds. 

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On 1/13/2021 at 7:59 PM, HesedTech said:

I have many of the Henning extensions and here is what I found works to solve this problem. 
 

1. straighten the spring where it is attached to the follower so the follower is slightly angled towards the spring coil side.

2. load no more than 22 rounds of 9mm and 18 of 40sw. 
 

After doing this many thousands of rounds of ammo have passed through these mags with zero failures. 
 

the problem is the follower flips into the non-coil side when it gets past 17-18 rounds. 

Bending the spring didnt work for me. But so far the JB Weld is working great. And is super easy. 

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On 1/18/2021 at 8:53 AM, jubi351 said:

Did you make jb weld ribs on just the rear or did you do both?

2 ribs on each side. I taped off the bottom of the inside of the mag and cut out where I wanted the JB Weld. Then once dry I peeled off the tape and used a sanding stone to level them out with the ribs. On one mag one of the JB Weld ribs didnt stick but seems to be working good. I have 2 that I can reliably run 22 rounds reliably and reloadable. 2 I can do 23 rounds. That's good enough for me. I've decided to go all in and shoot it at the Florida open in feburary. It will be the very first USPSA match with this gun. Lol. 

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/4/2021 at 5:24 PM, shred said:

 The only real solution for 9mm in ribbed Tanfo mags (K9 or  Mecgar or whatever) is to extend the ribs somehow. 

 

 I’m new to T-fo, got a Stock 2 and just added the Henning basepad and the grams follower. Ran the first stage fine and it’s failed every stage, 2 matches in a row since.  

* the nose of the rounds are getting stuck on the bottom of the feed ramp.*
 

Shred, what do you mean about extend the ribs? Are there any pics of this? Def need a fix here.  

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Stuck on the feed ramp is a different problem.  

 

The rib extension is to fix saltshaker mags when you load more than 20 with an extended pad.  When you dump out all the loose rounds, there's two rounds stuck side by side at the bottom of the mag.

 

I use an arbor press with a shop-made punch and die.  If you don't have that, clamp a metal flat bar as large as you can find that fits inside the mag in a vise or hanging off a workbench to act as an anvil and set the tip of an ~1/8" punch (round or flat tip) at the bottom end of the rear rib.  Move it a skosh further along so you're using the edge of the punch to nibble your way further along the line of the rib and tap it with a hammer until you have extended the rib a bit.  No need to make it any deeper than it is.  Move the punch down a bit more, staying in line with the rib and repeat, until you get the rib extended about 1/4" to 3/8" longer.  I do the other side back rib also.  Sand/polish the inside as needed if you made a lot of lumps.  It's not super-critical work.  I punched right through the mag on one of mine testing out the press and it works fine.

 

If you're more of a welder and good with a TIG, you can use weld bead on the inside instead or silver solder in a shim or something or use JB weld like some guys upthread.  We did all kinds of wacky things to get more rounds into short STI mags back in the day which is the same problem.

  

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12 hours ago, SufferInSilence said:

 I’m new to T-fo, got a Stock 2 and just added the Henning basepad and the grams follower. Ran the first stage fine and it’s failed every stage, 2 matches in a row since.  

* the nose of the rounds are getting stuck on the bottom of the feed ramp.*
 

Shred, what do you mean about extend the ribs? Are there any pics of this? Def need a fix here.  

Common issue with extended bases and the Gramms followers.

 

The problem is, while these parts sometimes are drop in and go they normally require some tuning to make them work.
You don't need to extend the 9mm mag ribs. 

 

The follower has the extended stock guides removed so that you can get two extra rounds in the mag. The solution is to bend the spring where the follower attaches to it so that the follower has more nose up and is angled to the spring side in an exaggerated way. When done it will look like the follower is about to spring out of an empty mag. 

 

This applies to both the Tanfo and CZ mag extensions

 

One other issue is as the springs wear they "soften" and will cause a nose down condition. One solution I have experimented with is to use MBX 11 coil springs and follower in the mag with a Henning base. These springs are approximately 20% stronger than Gramms. Another possible solution is to use Taran Tact, springs and 1911 followers for the same reasons, spring strength and keeping the bullet nose up.

 

There also seems to be issues with spring steel these days. It just isn't lasting as long.

 

Ultimately an MBX 141mm mag would fix the follower flipping issue at the base joint, but it won't fix the nose down feed issue if the springs aren't tuned/bent correctly.

 

 

 

 

Edited by HesedTech
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3 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

Common issue with extended bases and the Gramms followers.

 

The problem is, while these parts sometimes are drop in and go they normally require some tuning to make them work.
You don't need to extend the 9mm mag ribs. 

 

The follower has the extended stock guides removed so that you can get two extra rounds in the mag. The solution is to bend the spring where the follower attaches to it so that the follower has more nose up and is angled to the spring side in an exaggerated way. When done it will look like the follower is about to spring out of an empty mag. 

 

This applies to both the Tanfo and CZ mag extensions

 

One other issue is ass the springs wear they "soften" and will cause a nose down condition. One solution I have experimented with is to use MBX 11 coil springs and follower in the mag with a Henning base. These springs are approximately 20% stronger than Gramms. Another possible solution is to use Taran Tact, springs and 1911 followers for the same reasons, spring strength and keeping the bullet nose up.

 

There also seems to be issues with spring steel these days. It just isn't lasting as long.

 

Ultimately an MBX 141mm mag would fix the follower flipping issue at the base joint, but it won't fix the nose down feed issue if the springs aren't tuned/bent correctly.

 

 

 

 


Makes sense since the factory mags/followers work fine.  I’ll give it a try when I get home.   But yes, every malfunction I had was a nose down, stuck into the feed ramp.  
 

Im running a 13# recoil spring.  Which I figured had enough oommph to slam it in place.  Guess not.  
 

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