New JP PCC?

[Darqusoull13]

Dang, the internet sure does know a lot more than I do. And I have one! 

You seriously think JP wouldn't do a side charger? 

As far as weight I'll get mine on a scale but expect it to be significantly lighter than similarly spec'ed blowback guns. 

[avastcosmicarena]

1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

You seriously think JP wouldn't do a side charger? 

To be fair, they haven't really done it all that well in the past with one of the options they had offering both a rear charger and a sidecharger at the same time, which is worse and a cop out just to allow creating only one model. (The rear charger should just be removed altogether, ideally.)

Edited May 6, 2021 by avastcosmicarena

[Steve RA]

[Steve RA]

like the above.

 

[robertg5322]

37 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

like the above.

 

Except it's not non-reciprocating...

[egd5]

Not trying to be smart alec, but what's the advantage of a side charging handle? And wouldn't it need to be on the left side for a right handed shooter and visa versa for left hander?

[Darqusoull13]

1 minute ago, egd5 said:

Not trying to be smart alec, but what's the advantage of a side charging handle? And wouldn't it need to be on the left side for a right handed shooter and visa versa for left hander?

Some folks like them. In PCC generally I find them to be unnecessary. They are ideally on the correct side, yes. 

For precision rifle they are far more useful as they allow charging of the rifle without breaking position. You can effectively go prone or positional, have your target in the field of view or be on target and charge the rifle while maintaining a sight picture. 

Other advantages are more leverage to charge the rifle and when done well they are cool. Non-reciprocating is the only side charge worth discussing in an AR platform. 

[robertg5322]

1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

Some folks like them. In PCC generally I find them to be unnecessary. They are ideally on the correct side, yes. 

For precision rifle they are far more useful as they allow charging of the rifle without breaking position. You can effectively go prone or positional, have your target in the field of view or be on target and charge the rifle while maintaining a sight picture. 

Other advantages are more leverage to charge the rifle and when done well they are cool. Non-reciprocating is the only side charge worth discussing in an AR platform. 

Everything he said.

[egd5]

OK, yeah, I can see the advantage in prone position or something like that. I just couldn't think of any advantage in the games we play.

[Steve RA]

Reciprocating is fine,  I've used them for a long time and never had a problem with them.  Also, if you are trying to save weight, they are lighter than the other.

[Boomstick303]

For me the requirement of having side charging options is if you had it for all of your rifles, especially in competition world, in that the manual of arms for all of your rifles is the same.   I have a side charging handle on my PCC and never use it because I do not have side chargers on my AR competition rifles.  Therefore, I am always using the normal charging handle on all of my AR style rifles and my PCC.  If you are and individual that can operate a side charging handle every time and a normal charging handle every time (when its the only option) under the pressure of a timer, my hats off to you.  

 

I also understand JP now offers different side charging handle options, but I thought the original folding side charging handle works great for PRS and maybe that is what it is designed for, but for competition use on PCCs and AR rifles it takes too much time to unfold the handle.  the use of this handle for clearing the rifle or racking the bolt under the clock seemed clunky.  At least that was my experience.   

 

Side charging systems are slick for suppressed rigs though.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Boomstick303

[robertg5322]

10 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

For me the requirement of having side charging options is if you had it for all of your rifles, especially in competition world, in that the manual of arms for all of your rifles is the same.   I have a side charging handle on my PCC and never use it because I do not have side chargers on my AR competition rifles.  Therefore, I am always using the normal charging handle on all of my AR style rifles and my PCC.  If you are and individual that can operate a side charging handle every time and a normal charging handle every time (when its the only option) under the pressure of a timer, my hats off to you.  

 

I also understand JP now offers different side charging handle options, but I thought the original folding side charging handle works great for PRS and maybe that is what it is designed for, but for competition use on PCCs and AR rifles it takes too much time to unfold the handle.  the use of this handle for clearing the rifle or racking the bolt under the clock seemed clunky.  At least that was my experience.   

 

Side charging systems are slick for suppressed rigs though.

The whole "common manual of arms" thing is all well and good, but it doesn't explain how USPSA cats who shoot standard AR charging handles in USPSA PCC switch so seamlessly to the Ruger 10/22 in Steel Challenge, or those guys who shoot multiple divisions in a Steel Challenge match, switching between rimfire rifles, centerfire rifles, rimfire pistols, and centerfire pistols. And between iron sights and optics. I'm sure it matters, just not sure it matters that much if you are familiar with each division.

 

I agree with your opinion of the JP side charger, it is clunky, and does require more than just grabbing the handle and cycling it to clear a jam, where something of the Gibbz Arms style is more intuitive. And non-reciprocating ensures the charging handle is in the same location every time, the front of the upper, no matter where the bolt is. You also don't need to worry about the charging handle hitting your hand when releasing the bolt via the bolt catch. And it won't hit anything you're on/near as it cycles when shooting. 

 

If I shot my centerfire ARs more, I'd have a side charging upper on them. It I wasn't so wanting my rimfire AR to be as light as possible (right at 4.4 lbs now with a 16" barrel and birdcage flash suppressor), I might consider it for that gun. I built two 9mm ARs with side charging uppers because, A. I found the uppers at really good prices (>$200.00 each), and B. they look cool. They also function great, and after using them, I've never thought it was a bad idea to have the side chargers for this game. I honestly can't think of a downside to the sidecharging AR other than for left handed shooters, and there are work arounds for them (switchable handle locations, being the most obvious, and left handed rifles being another option).

 

So, agreed on the advantages being not huge (ergonomics and leverage), and mostly limited to clearing jams, but with no disadvantage, why not? Especially when totally redesigning the rifle, and not using any standard AR parts other than furniture, magazines, and the trigger group (I'm assuming JP is not changing that part of the rifle, but I could be mistaken in this assumption). Putting personal likes and dislikes aside, it's hard to argue that a non-reciprocating side charging handle at the receiver, or as Foxtrot Mike does, at the front of the handguard is not an improvement over the current charging handle.

 

And getting rid of the receiver extension/buffer tube would be an even better idea, how much cooler would these guns be if they had folding stocks that didn't add complexity to the gun's action, and could be fired with the stock folded? I didn't say now useful would they be, I asked how cool would they be...

[Darqusoull13]

2 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

For me the requirement of having side charging options is if you had it for all of your rifles, especially in competition world, in that the manual of arms for all of your rifles is the same.   I have a side charging handle on my PCC and never use it because I do not have side chargers on my AR competition rifles.  Therefore, I am always using the normal charging handle on all of my AR style rifles and my PCC.  If you are and individual that can operate a side charging handle every time and a normal charging handle every time (when its the only option) under the pressure of a timer, my hats off to you.  

 

I also understand JP now offers different side charging handle options, but I thought the original folding side charging handle works great for PRS and maybe that is what it is designed for, but for competition use on PCCs and AR rifles it takes too much time to unfold the handle.  the use of this handle for clearing the rifle or racking the bolt under the clock seemed clunky.  At least that was my experience.   

 

Side charging systems are slick for suppressed rigs though.

There's a competition version available with a larger lever that is swept forward and open for competition.

The folding lever was designed to avoid getting caught in things during use outside of competition.

Side chargers are easier for me to use but I have both.  

[robertg5322]

Just now, Darqusoull13 said:

There's a competition version available with a larger lever that is swept forward and open for competition.

The folding lever was designed to avoid getting caught in things during use outside of competition.

Side chargers are easier for me to use but I have both.  

The competition lever is pricey if memory serves ($239.00 if you already have the side charging upper and just want to add the competition charging handle, or $799.00 for the upper receiver with the side charging handle). Of course everything JP is pricey...  Wondering what this new gun is going to cost.

 

I have both as well, prefer the side charging option, but the benefit, while tangible, isn't a huge enough deal for me to upgrade my fleet of rifles. But if I build any more rifles, unless I'm going for ultra light, they'll be side charging.

[avastcosmicarena]

At the end of the day, it's just preference, but when you've developed that preference and your other guns all use side chargers, it's nice to stick with it and keep all the guns the same. Doesn't mean it's a necessity or a requirement for competition or anything, but a lot of people do feel it is an improvement in ergonomics and a more "modern" design.

I do agree that the extended competition charging handle from JP is very overpriced at $240 just for the handle, but so are their sidecharging upper receivers. I have multiple Gibbz Arms/Quartercircle10 (produced by Gibbz Arms) sidecharging upper receivers, AR15 and AR9, and I like them a lot. If people are capable of putting together a gun themselves, this is probably the way to go. JP seems to generally be more for the people who don't like piecing together guns themselves or tuning/tinkering.

That said, this gun could be very cool. I was already very interested in the Angstadt Arms MDP-9, but it's been 2 years now and it's still not out. If this is done well and has a sidecharger-only option, I'll get one. Hopefully they offer plenty of options to make everyone happy... traditional rear charger model, sidecharger model, different handguard and barrel lengths (for competition or PDW), mlok handguards, etc.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by avastcosmicarena

[Neomet]

On 5/5/2021 at 7:28 PM, pjb45 said:

Your apology does not cut.  You are temporary suspended from TNS for three weeks for being not only funny but truthful.  I suspect you have witness- that was no mike, I nicked the edge —-see.  

Hahahaha!!

[Galun]

Surprised to see nobody talking about this yet.  Preorder is available and pricing is out.  $3269 for the competition version with their tube handguard and pcc compensator.  $3349 for the steel challenge version with their mlok handguard and titanium compensator.  Looks like net weight savings of around 7oz (0.4lbs).

 

I had been told that the roller delay mechanism makes this shoot like a 22 with very little recoil, and thus the compensator really isn’t necessary.  Even if I shoot USPSA, I should go for the steel challenge version due to the weight savings.

 

https://jprifles.com/1.2.18_JP-5.php?menu_select=rif_buy_menu

[BlackBuzzard]

Like DOUBLE  the price of my  GMR-15.   About fell over when I saw the price point.

[Posvar]

26 minutes ago, BlackBuzzard said:

Like DOUBLE  the price of my  GMR-15.   About fell over when I saw the price point.

Agreed 

[Silverscooby27]

That’s what I was thinking… very expensive, and why on earth would anyone in USPSA get anything other than the steel challenge version. The final thing I was thinking was that it was interesting they weren’t offering a short barrel version with the shroud. Maybe so they can sell you this one first then the short barrel version later?

[fedupflyer]

23 hours ago, BlackBuzzard said:

Like DOUBLE  the price of my  GMR-15.   About fell over when I saw the price point.

 

Same here.

 

I thought it would go for around $2300 at the max.

I wanted to get one but at $3400 I might have to pass.

[robertg5322]

Not sure why anybody is surprised these things are going for what they are. GMR15s going for $2,500.00 +, the fact that this thing is not going for $5,000.00 or more is what's surprising to me...

[Galun]

47 minutes ago, Silverscooby27 said:

That’s what I was thinking… very expensive, and why on earth would anyone in USPSA get anything other than the steel challenge version. The final thing I was thinking was that it was interesting they weren’t offering a short barrel version with the shroud. Maybe so they can sell you this one first then the short barrel version later?

I think shroud barrel and side charger will be available later.  
 

Gotta see the market reception of a $3350 pcc.  If it is a meaningful improvement and people are willing to pay for it, then they introduce the $400 barrel add on and $600 side charger upgrade.  If the launch fall flat then they wouldn't have spent money developing those options.  It’s prudent market testing. 

[TotDoc]

I really wanted to get one of these, but the pinned and welded comp is killing it for me. Really want a shorter barrel I can run my suppressor on, but I totally understand the appeal of a non nfa length setup for competition. I just wish I could spin my can on it. Honestly, I wish I could get both a full length barrel and an sbr barrel for fun! I guess I'll just have to be patient and see what other options they make available when this goes into "full" production. 

[SteelCityShooter]

Yes, $3500 for a PCC is expensive but this is a top-of-the-line rifle from a boutique maker.  Considering Wilson, Ed Brown, Nighthawk and others are charging over $4000 for a "custom" 1911 and all have a waiting list, maybe it's not so bad.

 

Well out of my price range, yes about double what I paid for my GMR-15 a couple of years ago, but understandable.