Whats everyone using in CO

[B_RAD]

1 hour ago, AngeloConde said:

Thank you. Might have to look in to that as well. Does the canik come in OR or do I have to get it milled. I don’t really look at the flattest/softest. I belive recoil can be controlled by the shooter. What ever I choose I’m going to stick with and just train like crazy 

It's OR ready. Comes with plates for all the optics.  Comes with really good iron sights too. Has what I think is the best trigger out of any gun out there.  

 

You'll need to change the recoil spring and guide rod just like with any gun. 

 

If you get one feel free to message me and I'll help you out with what tweaks you'll want to make. 

[AngeloConde]

1 minute ago, B_RAD said:

It's OR ready. Comes with plates for all the optics.  Comes with really good iron sights too. Has what I think is the best trigger out of any gun out there.  

 

You'll need to change the recoil spring and guide rod just like with any gun. 

 

If you get one feel free to message me and I'll help you out with what tweaks you'll want to make. 

Awesome man thank you. I will deffinatly do that still on the fence. Weighing all my options an variables lol

[rowdyb]

11 hours ago, AngeloConde said:

Easiest question which do you still own I've had the 34 years ago and a shadow 2 but never in CO. I've been more of a cz guy thru the years and just seen that sig came out with the legion so I was curious on that as well local shops don't have one to get my hands on. Did you notice any noticeable difference in shooting from the legion to the s2. 

I still own a Shadow 2 OR.

The difference between them that I noticed is where the trigger broke. All three of my legions had Gray Guns triggers in them and all of my Shadow 2 optics guns (cut or factory) had at least spring changes. To me, the Sig trigger broke much further forward relative to my grip on the gun whereas the CZ in single action broke much closer to hand.

 

So why do I no longer own the Sig when I could write a list of why it is a great choice? Because I have shot CZ pistols in USPSA since 2014 and after 6 months of dry fire and live fire I just never felt the same. So something that is objective and measurable, where in the trigger stroke does the sear trip and fire the gun, effected how I felt based off of previous experience.

 

If I didn't have so many rounds on a CZ I would probably be shooting either the Glock or the Sig. I have handled and shot the Cannik but would not choose it for completely subjective reasons. (Not for any real real reason) But the reasons for all that are unique to me, Rowdy, and not so much to the guns intrinsic strengths or faults.

 

And as @B_RAD has stated, he has shot every gun. Hell, he has bought some of my guns. He also has finished at the elite end of the results multiple times. He has the desire and ability to try every gun but you might not. We both wish you well in your decision making process and eventual result.

[rowdyb]

9 hours ago, cheby said:

Rowdy, 

I have a question. What was your experience with the Legion X5 accuracy? A few threads about it  on this forum got me curious. thanks

Before I answer, disclaimer my eyes suck (20/200 uncorrected and astigmatisms in both eyes) and I have tri focal progressive lenses.

 

I shoot 147gr bullets 80% of the time, rotating between coated and plated but rarely jacketed. At the time they were averaging around 880fps.

 

Long story short, learning the trigger and shooting 147's at over 900fps "fixed" my accuracy problem.

 

Long story, I was initially not concerned but I was overwhelmed with just all the new sensations of shooting the gun. It all felt and looked different compared to a Shadow 2. Then I started "trying" and I noticed I was very unhappy with my shots at 20 yards and further. My groups were 3 times the size I consider acceptable, my outstretched hand barely covering the 10 shots.

 

So I tried finding an aftermarket rear sight as I was having a hard time with my glasses and getting the sights to look how I wanted. No go. So then I bought two Barsto barrels (even though I have always quit using them all the other times I've bought them as they drive me crazy with how picky they are about 9mm ammo). Changing nothing but the barrel I got better groups at 20 yards.

 

But then one day I was shooting with a friend and he was watching me and he said, "your trigger control is like worse than horrible, what is going on?" I said I had no idea, was just "doing". Well we did dummy drills and it was immediately apparent the first time I pulled the trigger on a snap cap I was to blame. Which hurt my feelings as I thought I didn't have that kind of bad habbit. But I did. So I had to break down and start all over, learning how to shoot the gun without moving the sights all over the place. The action/movement of my trigger finger and my grip was causing all sorts of sight movement. And for some reason I hadn't self diagnosed it. After a three weeeks of working on that my groups got better again. Such that there was no difference in the groups between stock barrel and barsto barrrel.

 

In IDPA the pf for pcc is 135 or something. So my pcc loads are a little hotter. I was lazy making ammo and decided to shoot them through my Sig one day for live fire. Boom, instantly better groups. Get the chrono out and my 147 grain are doing 930fps versus the 880 or so I used to accept. Noooowwww I'm getting acceptable groups.

 

I still was very unhappy with how my glasses and the sights worked together. I was running a different Dawson front sight and a modified stock rear sight to try and get things how I wanted so I could resolve the front sight clearly. (Which I never got to how I liked. Not enough light, not enough contrast, not a deep enough rear notch.) But if I held my head in a way I couln't replicate in a match and shot hotter ammo and actually had a decent trigger press then the gun with stock barrel and 147s was totally fine and as accurate as anything.

 

For someone else I would just say if you want to shoot 147s run them a little hotter and be dang sure your trigger press is perfect. If that's all good you should be happy.

[JGus]

I started out with the XDm 5.25 with a Vortex Viper when CO first started and had a lighter weight restriction. The XDm was great and exceeded what my abilities could deliver. But because i was shooting a Shadow 2 in Prd, when the weight for CO increased i also went to the Shadow 2 in CO, also with a Vortex Viper. I love everything about the Shadow 2 and thought it was my forever CO gun. I had a Sig X5 and was pretty underwhelmed with it.  When the X5 Legion came out i didn't think too much of it.....until i shot my buddies with a GGI curved trigger kit installed and a DPP.  For some reason beyond my comprehension, i could shoot more alphas and at a faster rate than with Shadow 2. So, that's what i've been shooting since last year and love it. I've got the GGI curved trigger kit installed. A tungsten guide rod. And a DPP with 7.5 moa. I'd prefer a DPP with a 5 or 6 moa, but since they don't make that the 7.5 works fine. Ever since i turned 50 a few years ago, the biggest change in my physical being that has effected my shooting is my eyesight. Without glasses on i have a hard time reading stuff even on the TV.  So now i'm shooting CO almost exclusively.

[motosapiens]

20 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I also recommend you reconsider such long barrel lengths since sight radius is irrelevant with optical sights and a 4 or 4.5 inch barrel will make power factor just as easily as a 5 inch one will.

 

IME guns with shorter slides recoil flatter all else being equal.

a longer barrel will require less powder, and the muzzle will rise less to reach the same pf. That's why I used the threaded barrel when I was shooting the xdm. You are somewhat correct tho because the shorter slide should be slightly lighter, so it will impart less force to the gun when it slams forward.

 

Honestly 'flatness' seems like a dumb way to talk bout non-compensated guns. the important thing is whether the sights (or dot) return to the spot they left from, as opposed to dipping down below. grip, powder charge, bullet weight, recoil spring and timing, etc.... all play a role here. Sometimes a more powerful load that raises the muzzle *more* is just what is needed for the slide to come forward and drop the muzzle back into exactly the right spot. Sometimes what is needed is simply a subtle adjustment to your grip.

[pskys2]

First are you comfortable with a SA/DA transition, or feel you can adapt.  Or would you prefer the trigger to have the same pull for each shot?  There are advantages to both.

Second, how does recoil affect you?  The CZ is steel and heavier than the others this will reduce the recoil, but makes for a heavier gun to handle.  Both have an advantage and it is personal skills that need to be assessed.

Last the Glock has a different grip angle than the others.  Some like it, some don't.  If you like handling the 1911 best, the Glock will naturally point high.  It can be overcome and shouldn't be the reason to not get a Glock. 

With a Dot though it is best to get the one that points best for you.  Try this, take a Glock, close your eyes and present the pistol at a point on the wall.  Open your eyes, where are the sights?  If the FS is pointed high you will find it harder to find the Dot naturally.  You can try this with the others also, the one that has the FS nestled closest to the RS is going to be the easiest to find a Dot with.

The CZ is the most expensive of the group if that is an issue.

[jwhittin]

To add more about the accuracy question.  I had a similar experience as Rowdy.  I also shoot CO and I realized my trigger control was terrible at speed and have had success in correcting that and improving my at-speed accuracy.  

 

But I had also noticed an inherent accuracy issue. After bench testing my reloads (i.e., using a bench-supported grip) at 20 yrds, I learned that there was a HUGE difference in accuracy among my competition loads.  I have two main competition reloads (because of the supply shortage). Of course this is possible with any gun and is not specific to the X5.  

 

I knew accuracy would be different among the load and gun combinations but I had no idea it could be so much!  The worst combination was with 147gn Xtreme RN copper plated at about 900 fps out of my X5.  I was getting 5 to 6 inch groups at 20 yrds which translates to 6 to 7 inches at 25 yrds and is totally unacceptable! And yes, I checked it multiple times to be sure.  However, with the same gun, I get 2" groups at 20 yrds (2.5" at 25 yrds) with 135gn coated RN at about 980 fps (OAL for both is  1.145").  That's not great accuracy but it is acceptable for a stock gun. When I repeated the process with my RXP, I get 2" groups at 20 yrds with both loads.

 

Bottom Line: 
Bench test the accuracy of your load with your gun and check it periodically.

 

I hope this helps.

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, jwhittin said:

I knew accuracy would be different among the load and gun combinations but I had no idea it could be so much!  The worst combination was with 147gn Xtreme RN copper plated at about 900 fps out of my X5.  I was getting 5 to 6 inch groups at 20 yrds which translates to 6 to 7 inches at 25 yrds and is totally unacceptable! And yes, I checked it multiple times to be sure.  However, with the same gun, I get 2" groups at 20 yrds (2.5" at 25 yrds) with 135gn coated RN at about 980 fps (OAL for both is  1.145").  That's not great accuracy but it is acceptable for a stock gun. When I repeated the process with my RXP, I get 2" groups at 20 yrds with both loads.

 

Bottom Line: 
Bench test the accuracy of your load with your gun and check it periodically.

 

I hope this helps.

 

we have had a number of guns in 9 and 40 that just hate plated bullets for some reason, and have accuracy and tumbling problems. the same loads run great in other guns.

[AngeloConde]

7 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I still own a Shadow 2 OR.

The difference between them that I noticed is where the trigger broke. All three of my legions had Gray Guns triggers in them and all of my Shadow 2 optics guns (cut or factory) had at least spring changes. To me, the Sig trigger broke much further forward relative to my grip on the gun whereas the CZ in single action broke much closer to hand.

 

So why do I no longer own the Sig when I could write a list of why it is a great choice? Because I have shot CZ pistols in USPSA since 2014 and after 6 months of dry fire and live fire I just never felt the same. So something that is objective and measurable, where in the trigger stroke does the sear trip and fire the gun, effected how I felt based off of previous experience.

 

If I didn't have so many rounds on a CZ I would probably be shooting either the Glock or the Sig. I have handled and shot the Cannik but would not choose it for completely subjective reasons. (Not for any real real reason) But the reasons for all that are unique to me, Rowdy, and not so much to the guns intrinsic strengths or faults.

 

And as @B_RAD has stated, he has shot every gun. Hell, he has bought some of my guns. He also has finished at the elite end of the results multiple times. He has the desire and ability to try every gun but you might not. We both wish you well in your decision making process and eventual result.

So from all my research and accepting what I am used to instead of trying something new. I am either going to go sp01 shadow or the 2. Not quite certain which one yet. Considering I can pretty much do anything to a cz (I have been for a long time now) just got to wait until my funds are available. I trully do appreciate everyone taking their time to talk in these threads truly does mean alot

[AngeloConde]

3 hours ago, jwhittin said:

To add more about the accuracy question.  I had a similar experience as Rowdy.  I also shoot CO and I realized my trigger control was terrible at speed and have had success in correcting that and improving my at-speed accuracy.  

 

But I had also noticed an inherent accuracy issue. After bench testing my reloads (i.e., using a bench-supported grip) at 20 yrds, I learned that there was a HUGE difference in accuracy among my competition loads.  I have two main competition reloads (because of the supply shortage). Of course this is possible with any gun and is not specific to the X5.  

 

I knew accuracy would be different among the load and gun combinations but I had no idea it could be so much!  The worst combination was with 147gn Xtreme RN copper plated at about 900 fps out of my X5.  I was getting 5 to 6 inch groups at 20 yrds which translates to 6 to 7 inches at 25 yrds and is totally unacceptable! And yes, I checked it multiple times to be sure.  However, with the same gun, I get 2" groups at 20 yrds (2.5" at 25 yrds) with 135gn coated RN at about 980 fps (OAL for both is  1.145").  That's not great accuracy but it is acceptable for a stock gun. When I repeated the process with my RXP, I get 2" groups at 20 yrds with both loads.

 

Bottom Line: 
Bench test the accuracy of your load with your gun and check it periodically.

 

I hope this helps.

I appreciate this unfortunatly I am kind of limited at the moment as far as working up a load and what not. Will be getting a press once I buy a house. Its kind of hard to reload in a 3 bedroom apartment with 2 kids

[AngeloConde]

6 hours ago, JGus said:

I started out with the XDm 5.25 with a Vortex Viper when CO first started and had a lighter weight restriction. The XDm was great and exceeded what my abilities could deliver. But because i was shooting a Shadow 2 in Prd, when the weight for CO increased i also went to the Shadow 2 in CO, also with a Vortex Viper. I love everything about the Shadow 2 and thought it was my forever CO gun. I had a Sig X5 and was pretty underwhelmed with it.  When the X5 Legion came out i didn't think too much of it.....until i shot my buddies with a GGI curved trigger kit installed and a DPP.  For some reason beyond my comprehension, i could shoot more alphas and at a faster rate than with Shadow 2. So, that's what i've been shooting since last year and love it. I've got the GGI curved trigger kit installed. A tungsten guide rod. And a DPP with 7.5 moa. I'd prefer a DPP with a 5 or 6 moa, but since they don't make that the 7.5 works fine. Ever since i turned 50 a few years ago, the biggest change in my physical being that has effected my shooting is my eyesight. Without glasses on i have a hard time reading stuff even on the TV.  So now i'm shooting CO almost exclusively.

Interesting my uncle has the xdm and swears by it ive been trying to get him to switch over to CO but he's stubborn lol

[AngeloConde]

3 hours ago, pskys2 said:

First are you comfortable with a SA/DA transition, or feel you can adapt.  Or would you prefer the trigger to have the same pull for each shot?  There are advantages to both.

Second, how does recoil affect you?  The CZ is steel and heavier than the others this will reduce the recoil, but makes for a heavier gun to handle.  Both have an advantage and it is personal skills that need to be assessed.

Last the Glock has a different grip angle than the others.  Some like it, some don't.  If you like handling the 1911 best, the Glock will naturally point high.  It can be overcome and shouldn't be the reason to not get a Glock. 

With a Dot though it is best to get the one that points best for you.  Try this, take a Glock, close your eyes and present the pistol at a point on the wall.  Open your eyes, where are the sights?  If the FS is pointed high you will find it harder to find the Dot naturally.  You can try this with the others also, the one that has the FS nestled closest to the RS is going to be the easiest to find a Dot with.

The CZ is the most expensive of the group if that is an issue.

I think im just going to play it safe and go the cz route again. Since that is what im most used to. I've owned the czechmate, shadow 2, and sp01 a while back But due to life events I had to sadly part ways with them. When I shot the shadow 2 my only down side was getting that first DA shot off correctly the trigger reach was a little to far for me. I wonder if there is a way to shorten the DA trigger  

[-JCN-]

1 hour ago, AngeloConde said:

I think im just going to play it safe and go the cz route again. Since that is what im most used to. I've owned the czechmate, shadow 2, and sp01 a while back But due to life events I had to sadly part ways with them. When I shot the shadow 2 my only down side was getting that first DA shot off correctly the trigger reach was a little to far for me. I wonder if there is a way to shorten the DA trigger  

 

 

https://cajungunworks.com/product/rrk-t2-reach-reduction-kit/

 

I bought one and resisted installing it for a while.

Finally did and... bought more for the back up guns.

 

Well worth the money, IMO

Edited December 30, 2020 by -JCN-

[AngeloConde]

1 hour ago, -JCN- said:

 

 

https://cajungunworks.com/product/rrk-t2-reach-reduction-kit/

 

I bought one and resisted installing it for a while.

Finally did and... bought more for the back up guns.

 

Well worth the money, IMO

Did this require any fitting did it make a noticeable difference in trigger reach?

[-JCN-]

Just now, AngeloConde said:

Did this require any fitting did it make a noticeable difference in trigger reach?

 

Mine did not. Some people's do. I've installed two kits. Both fit without any modification. They do have instructional videos on what to do if it doesn't quite fit.

 

Yes, it did make a difference in reach. There are plenty of youtube videos floating around about it.

[jwhittin]

23 hours ago, AngeloConde said:

appreciate this unfortunatly I am kind of limited at the moment as far as working up a load and what not. Will be getting a press once I buy a house. Its kind of hard to reload in a 3 bedroom apartment with 2 kids

 

I completely understand.  Whatever ammo you are able to get, I recommend checking accuracy so you know how it performs.  Best of luck with the house and Happy New Year!

[AngeloConde]

21 hours ago, -JCN- said:

 

Mine did not. Some people's do. I've installed two kits. Both fit without any modification. They do have instructional videos on what to do if it doesn't quite fit.

 

Yes, it did make a difference in reach. There are plenty of youtube videos floating around about it.

Awesome i will deffinatly have to check that out once I do purchase one. Happy new years

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by AngeloConde

[AngeloConde]

3 minutes ago, jwhittin said:

 

I completely understand.  Whatever ammo you are able to get, I recommend checking accuracy so you know how it performs.  Best of luck with the house and Happy New Year!

Thank you yea. I used to just shoot the Winchester white Box 115. But am now looking for an actual ammo company that does competition rounds. I think I have one locally but I don't know if there closed I gotta check them out 

[Bakerjd]

I just got my tanfo stock 2 OR back from patriot defense, set up my belt and then this past sunday shot a steel Challange match with it. WOW is all I have to say. CO is sweet. Cant wait to shoot a USPSA matc with it.