edison Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said: The first one is easy. Physics can't be argued. Shorter slides have less mass, less momentum, and a shorter fulcrum. As long as the grip isn't overly short, it is easier to make a pistol with a shorter slide rise less in recoil and dip less when it returns to battery. Whether you agree or not it's irrelevant. Math/physics don't lie nor care about classification cards. Flip on recoil can be mitigated in any number of ways some involving changes to the pistol, some involving added hand and arm strength, and some involving technique. But when there's less to mitigate to begin with, there's less to do about it. The second point is somewhat arguable, but when I can make PF with ease with a 4" gun using loads in the middle of the range I see no other way to describe it other than it's just as easy. Math & physics can absolutely be argued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 2 hours ago, rowdyb said: I was a Health Physicist, so if you want to know about the effects of radiation on your body I'm the man. Or some basics about electromagnatism, nuclear power, medical uses and such. None of my classes dealt with springs. But I have had Trig and Calc based Newtonian physics classes and that does make a person somewhat smarter about how some things work than a person who hasn't. Yeah, I'm a mechanical engineer who was trained in nuclear engineering by the Navy (not a cook tho) and ended up running power plants in a Nimitz class carrier. Then went on to have a career in manufacturing engineering including tooling and fixture design, heat treatment, machining, and all sorts of other stuff that's given me a pretty good insight about how things work. I think I have a decent grasp of newtonian mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, edison said: Math & physics can absolutely be argued. Anyone can argue anything, whether they understand it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, AngeloConde said: I am assuming you load your own. Have you found that certain ammos don't make PF in certain guns I don't reload so that would be another factory as well Outside of my self defense ammo, all I use is handloaded so I've never chronoed any factory loads. Generally speaking your odds of finding factory ammo that won't make minor out of any pistol that isn't some micro pocket carry heater are pretty low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said: Outside of my self defense ammo, all I use is handloaded so I've never chronoed any factory loads. Generally speaking your odds of finding factory ammo that won't make minor out of any pistol that isn't some micro pocket carry heater are pretty low. slightly out of context, but factory .38 special doesn’t even come close to USPSA PF (much less the 120 in ICORE) in most revolvers but this thread is about CO in which no one in their right mind would use a revolver. A wheelie with a dot is common in ICORE open. But yes, most factory 9 in any common semi sails through chrono. At current prices, it finally makes financial sense to hand load 9. Previously, I’d wait for the off-season sales and stock up. This year, I’m pulling the handle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mcfoto said: slightly out of context, but factory .38 special doesn’t even come close to USPSA PF (much less the 120 in ICORE) in most revolvers but this thread is about CO in which no one in their right mind would use a revolver. A wheelie with a dot is common in ICORE open. But yes, most factory 9 in any common semi sails through chrono. At current prices, it finally makes financial sense to hand load 9. Previously, I’d wait for the off-season sales and stock up. This year, I’m pulling the handle... I know. My comments were in the context of this thread which is 9 mm semi autos, and Shadows in particular. Everyone's break point is different, but I've been reloading 9 mm for several years at a savings. Then there's also the fact that one, before this year, could accumulate components for FAR less than loaded ammo. I'm sitting on quite a good supply of primers............. Edited December 30, 2020 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JCN- Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, motosapiens said: so I got a shadow2, and an adapter plate for the dpp, and about $50 worth of springs. with the cgw trigger return spring, and 11 lb mainspring, and extended firing pin, it seems to light off any primers, and the DA pull is barely over 6 lbs, SA around 2.5. The cz didn't point quite as naturally when I first picked it up but after an hour or so of dryfire it does now. I suspect it is just not *quite* as similar as my 2011. I would feel totally comfortable competing with either gun, but the cz just feels a little nicer to handle, and is a bit more accurate for me, not that i can tell an accuracy difference when shooting uspsa stages. I went back to stock firing pin and it turns out it fires all my primers. The extended firing pin makes a Shadow 2 not drop safe and was thought to have contributed to the NY RO injury. Edited December 30, 2020 by -JCN- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloConde Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, rowdyb said: btw I have owned and shot in CO all three the guns you listed, the X5 Legion, a gen 5 G34 and Shadow 2's. I will try to be objective in my answer if you have a question. Easiest question which do you still own I've had the 34 years ago and a shadow 2 but never in CO. I've been more of a cz guy thru the years and just seen that sig came out with the legion so I was curious on that as well local shops don't have one to get my hands on. Did you notice any noticeable difference in shooting from the legion to the s2. Edited December 30, 2020 by AngeloConde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloConde Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said: Outside of my self defense ammo, all I use is handloaded so I've never chronoed any factory loads. Generally speaking your odds of finding factory ammo that won't make minor out of any pistol that isn't some micro pocket carry heater are pretty low. Awesome i wasnt to sure if there were certain factory ammo to stay away from. Its been about a year or 2 since I've shot so its all still pretty new to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloConde Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 47 minutes ago, -JCN- said: I went back to stock firing pin and it turns out it fires all my primers. The extended firing pin makes a Shadow 2 not drop safe and was thought to have contributed to the NY RO injury. Oh snap really... ? Didn't even think of that could be an issue. Hope that RO is ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said: Yeah, I'm a mechanical engineer who was trained in nuclear engineering by the Navy (not a cook tho) and ended up running power plants in a Nimitz class carrier. Then went on to have a career in manufacturing engineering including tooling and fixture design, heat treatment, machining, and all sorts of other stuff that's given me a pretty good insight about how things work. I think I have a decent grasp of newtonian mechanics. Funny. I too work in the Mechanical Engineering field and was also in the Navy. What's the comment about you not being a cook about? Seems odd that you specifically state that you were not a cook! Did I miss someone else's comment about cooks? I don't know anyone that was in the Navy that starts off by telling people they weren't cooks. Edited December 30, 2020 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael303 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, B_RAD said: Funny. I too work in the Mechanical Engineering field and was also in the Navy. What, no resume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Michael303 said: What, no resume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George16 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, B_RAD said: Funny. I too work in the Mechanical Engineering field and was also in the Navy. What's the comment about you not being a cook about? Seems odd that you specifically state that you were not a cook! Did I miss someone else's comment about cooks? I don't know anyone that was in the Navy that starts off by telling people they weren't cooks. “Nukies” think they’re better than everyone. A lot of them are smart yet most are lacking in common sense . They’re exempt from doing mess hall rotation (probably the reason for the “not a cook” remark) because they’re “nukes and are special”. It’s all Rickover’s fault. Edited December 30, 2020 by George16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, George16 said: “Nukies” think they’re better than everyone. A lot of them are smart yet most are lacking in common sense . They’re exempt from doing mess hall rotation (probably the reason for the “not a cook” remark) because they’re “nukes and are special”. It’s all Rickover’s fault. I never dealt with nukes. The ships I was on were good ole fashion steam. Anyways, I'll get this back on track and I'll change my way of advising the OP. I like longer guns. I shoot CO. I still like the longer guns. But,.... I'm just some random guy on the internet. So,.... You're gonna have to just pick one and try. Might have to pick another and another before you find what you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloConde Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, B_RAD said: I never dealt with nukes. The ships I was on were good ole fashion steam. Anyways, I'll get this back on track and I'll change my way of advising the OP. I like longer guns. I shoot CO. I still like the longer guns. But,.... I'm just some random guy on the internet. So,.... You're gonna have to just pick one and try. Might have to pick another and another before you find what you like. Oh no worries this thread is kinda of getting interesting lol. I am curious about the cooking aspect is that a thing in the navy of some sorts? My step father was in the navy. Sounds about right. Which did you end up as your choice for CO thank you for your time and advice Edited December 30, 2020 by AngeloConde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, AngeloConde said: Oh snap really... ? Didn't even think of that could be an issue. Hope that RO is ok He is not OK. Like 100% not okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloConde Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, cheby said: He is not OK. Like 100% not okay Oh jeez. Ill say a prayer for his family.. that is tragic I just looked it upo Edited December 30, 2020 by AngeloConde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, rowdyb said: btw I have owned and shot in CO all three the guns you listed, the X5 Legion, a gen 5 G34 and Shadow 2's. I will try to be objective in my answer if you have a question. Rowdy, I have a question. What was your experience with the Legion X5 accuracy? A few threads about it on this forum got me curious. thanks Edited December 30, 2020 by cheby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Casey Ribek was a cook wasnt he?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 8 hours ago, -JCN- said: The extended firing pin makes a Shadow 2 not drop safe and was thought to have contributed to the NY RO injury. It wasn't an injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 7 hours ago, AngeloConde said: Oh snap really... ? Didn't even think of that could be an issue. Hope that RO is ok He isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloConde Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, DirkD said: He isn't Yea I gathered that last night thats very sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, AngeloConde said: Oh no worries this thread is kinda of getting interesting lol. I am curious about the cooking aspect is that a thing in the navy of some sorts? My step father was in the navy. Sounds about right. Which did you end up as your choice for CO thank you for your time and advice I shoot a Canik TP9SFX. I've shot every gun out there. The canik is not the softest/flattest shooter out there. I've spent a lot of money and time trying to find the "flattest" gun and ammo. I shot all year with my reloads that chrono at 140 pf. Which is a little hot. I shot that hot ammo and I shoot the canik because it's what I shoot the best. I chose ease of shooting and accuracy over how soft the gun felt. Trust me I shoot what I think is gonna give me the best chance to win. If I thought another gun was gonna give me a leg up, I'd be shooting it. I would not let how flat the gun feels factor in to your decision. Edited December 30, 2020 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloConde Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, B_RAD said: I shoot a Canik TP9SFX. I've shot every gun out there. The canik is not the softest/flattest shooter out there. I've spent a lot of money and time trying to find the "flattest" gun and ammo. I shot all year with my reloads that chrono at 140 pf. Which is a little hot. I shot that hot ammo and I shoot the canik because it's what I shoot the best. I chose ease of shooting and accuracy over how soft the gun felt. Trust me I shoot what I think is gonna give me the best chance to win. If I thought another gun was gonna give me a leg up, I'd be shooting it. I would not let how flat the gun feels factor in to your decision. Thank you. Might have to look in to that as well. Does the canik come in OR or do I have to get it milled. I don’t really look at the flattest/softest. I belive recoil can be controlled by the shooter. What ever I choose I’m going to stick with and just train like crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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