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On 11/28/2020 at 12:46 AM, warpspeed said:

 

 

Stages can be challenging and safe at the same time.  If you intentionally build a stage to see if you can get a shooter to break a rule and be DQ'd then you shouldn't be playing the game either.

 

We were all new shooters at some point and come to competitive shooting with different backgrounds, skills and aspirations.  Be nice.

 

 

 

 

What ? How is the stage designer responsible for what the shooter does especially in this case of opening a door....a car door at that. Do i think the IDPA goofy stages are a good idea...No...but that doesn't mean the shooter is not solely responsible for acting safely according to the rules..

 

I'm sorry for this person. I wish it had not happened, but don't blame the stage designer.

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1 hour ago, Brooke said:

 

What ? How is the stage designer responsible for what the shooter does especially in this case of opening a door....a car door at that. Do i think the IDPA goofy stages are a good idea...No...but that doesn't mean the shooter is not solely responsible for acting safely according to the rules..

 

I'm sorry for this person. I wish it had not happened, but don't blame the stage designer.

 

Put it this way:

A Match stage designer should not design a stage to trick shooters to break rules. A Range Master should verify that there are no DQ Traps.

 

An example: at the matches in my area, designers are scrupulous in preventing you from seeing targets from locations where you'd break the 180. They will place targets near 180, and use doors and hatches where some care is needed to avoid sweeping yourself.

 

My game is currently IPSC, and shooting from vehicles isn't allowed because: 2.1.3 Minimum Distances – Whenever metal targets or metal hard cover are used in a course of fire, precautions must be taken so that competitors and Match Officials maintain a minimum distance of 7 meters from them while they are being shot.

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12 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

Speak for yourself.

Many of "us" do understand them.

 

I have never found anyone that did in USPSA.

Have watched the USPSA rules head honcho + the president + a very well respected range master debate number of procedurals at a level 2. Also my very well respected r.o. class instructor gave me incorrect instruction (overridden by T.M.)  on a question during class - when I shared T.M.'s different answer he responded by explaining that T.M. was the chief but he had to answer according to the rule book. 

My favorite rules thing was a starting position disagreement between the CRO and myself as RO at a level 2. When we asked for clarification from the heavily experienced and well respected range master he responded that "the CRO was right, but I was technically right" 🤪

 

Etc. 

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14 hours ago, perttime said:

 

 

An example: at the matches in my area, designers are scrupulous in preventing you from seeing targets from locations where you'd break the 180. They will place targets near 180, and use doors and hatches where some care is needed to avoid sweeping yourself.

Scrupulous?  More like just following the rules.... 2.1.1, and 2.1.4

 

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On 11/29/2020 at 9:41 PM, Whoops! said:

https://uspsa.org/viewer/2020-USPSA-Competition-Rules.pdf
 

We have this 122 page one.

 

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/IDPA-Rulebook-2017.pdf

 

And this 41 pager.

 

https://www.3gunnation.com/wp-content/uploads/3GN-RULES-FEB-2019.pdf

 

And 3 gun nation fits all of their stuff into 29.

 

And many new people to our sport are used to going to the golf course and needing to know when to yell “four.”  Or going to a shooting range and needing to know a list of 9 rules.

 

 

Complexities in scoring, divisions, etc. are all tradeoffs taken away from the safety front.

 

The people designing the books shouldn’t expect new people to understand them after they get past ten pages.

 

The same way that none of us understand them, even the ones making them, as evidenced by incorrect questions on the RO exams.

 

Human Factors says to create a new book, in addition to the professional sports league sized ones we have.

 

Something titled “Must know Safety for Newcomers,” or something along those lines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL.....................I see the school system has failed

 

And that "Must Know Safety for Newcomers" is chapter 10, in case you were wondering

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