johnbu Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I was watching a vid and the competitor was given make ready. He drew, then proceeded to move the entire 12-ish ft width of the shooting area, dry firing using the pistol. Returned, then loaded and ran the stage normally. I could hear the MR command, but no request to move and dry fire the stage. (It might have been done pre-filming? Not that it matters to my question). Q: what is it proceedural for leaving the start position (assuming no permission) ? 8.7.1? PS enter as "general" ? Q: Does he also get one for 8.7.2? It's not a "walk thru"... or is it? (He totally walked thru, dry firing every target at each location with his gun, but after MR) Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 typically, I'd allow a step or so, depending on the stage. the whole 12' with the gun drawn - definitely not. the rules says he must not move away from the start position - 8.3.1.1 I would tell him to come back after the third step and give him a warning. if he continues to do it during the match, a DQ would be warranted for unsportsman like conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) As the RO, when he walked further than one step away from the "Make Ready" position, I would have loudly stated "STOP" using 8.7.1 as the reason. There is no procedural stated for violating 8.7.1 as there is in 8.7.2. 8.7.1 A competitor is permitted to take a sight picture prior to the start signal. Such sight picture is only permitted no more than one step from the “Make Ready” location. 8.7.2 Competitors are prohibited from using any guns or gun replicas as sighting aids while conducting their inspection (“walkthrough”) of a course of fire. Violations will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence (also see Rule 10.5.1). Since it was during the course of fire, 8.7.2 does not apply as it is only "while conducting their inspection (“walkthrough”) of a course of fire". It's way past walkthrough. The course of fire has begun at the Make Ready command per 8.3.1. IMHO the RO failed to do his job by letting the person walk the stage again after the MR command, even if it was agreed upon before the filming started. To keep the match flowing, RO's should not allow a competitor to "run" the stage again after the MR command as @racerbastated in the above post. Allowing one competitor to "walk" the stage again is an unfair advantage and that's specifically why 8.7.1 was written. BC Edited November 25, 2020 by BillChunn kaint spel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Reiterate 1 step. Never had someone not comply. As a courtesy I usually ask the RO can I take a step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, BillChunn said: As the RO, when he walked further than one step away from the "Make Ready" position, I would have loudly stated "STOP" using 8.7.1 as the reason. There is no procedural stated for violating 8.7.1 as there is in 8.7.2. this is exactly correct. I was squadded with someone who was given a procedural over this a few years ago. I advised him to ask for the RM and earned a beer out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, BillChunn said: As the RO, when he walked further than one step away from the "Make Ready" position, I would have loudly stated "STOP" using 8.7.1 as the reason. There is no procedural stated for violating 8.7.1 (...) @racerba 1 - The RO tells the shooter NOT to do this ... 2 - The shooter does it anyway ... 3 - Read the wording of 10.6.1 carefully! I believe a case COULD be made. Would I necessarily go there? Probably not, but it would depend on how eggrious the action was and the shooter's response to my reinforcing he's not allowed to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Schutzenmeister said: 1 - The RO tells the shooter NOT to do this ... 2 - The shooter does it anyway ... 3 - Read the wording of 10.6.1 carefully! I believe a case COULD be made. Would I necessarily go there? Probably not, but it would depend on how eggrious the action was and the shooter's response to my reinforcing he's not allowed to do that. for sure, you can DQ someone for it, but you can't give them a procedural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Thanks for the clarification guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrich4020 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I recently went through the Range Officer course. Our instructor was very clear about this: one step, no more. Any further movement would warrant a stop command but as others have already mentioned, the 2020 rule book does not cite a Procedural Penalty. If the shooter does not follow your commands, well, that’s a different kettle of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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