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Why Shadow 2 has more muzzle flip than STI


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Just shot my new Shadow 2 for the first time.  Great gun with superb ergonomics but somehow it has noticeably more muzzle flip than my STI DVC 3 Gun when shooting the 147 grain ammo despite being 8 oz heavier.  Any technical explanation as to why?  Thanks.

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1911/2011 does behave differently compared to CZs based on the limited testing I have done. I do not know if it has to do with the "geometry" of barrel lock up / unlocking, hammer/spring strut geometry when cocking the hammer etc.

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Geometry might be the key answer. I have both types of guns. My grip by tradition is for a 1911 type.  It has to be modified for different gun geometries. 
Maybe changing your grip will improve your muzzle control. 
 

Stance, grip, sight alignment, and trigger control are the fundamentals.  One type of grip does not serve all purposes. 

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On 11/24/2020 at 9:54 AM, Racinready300ex said:

I wonder how much the hammer spring changes things. Try a 19 lbs hammer spring in your CZ, the DA will suck but it might be a interesting experiment. 

 

 

Why will the DA be worse? 

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17 minutes ago, Rolex said:

Why will the DA be worse? 

 

Hammer spring is a huge part of the DA pull, you're cocking the hammer and the spring as you pull the trigger. The hammer springs we run in 1911's would make the pull ridiculous if you put that in a CZ. But in recoil the slide has to push the hammer back too, so recoil impulse has to be effected by the spring weight. Open guys even claim the profile of the firing pin stop on 2011's changes the recoil of the gun and how the dot tracks. 

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I'm convinced that there is something to the aspect of something being knew. Sometimes that makes it feel different. Sometimes the new thing doesn't feel different at all (recoil) until you get used to it. It recoiling different gets notcied more than what's actually different or vice versa.  

 

I personally can't tell any difference when I shooting something different at first. I shoot a plastic gun and ammo that chrono at 140 pf. When I shoot a shadow 2 it doesn't seem like it's any flatter or softer. At least not at first. 

 

That could also be that my grip on my current gun is really good and when switching to a completely different gun my grip may need to be tweaked to optimize recoil. This might allow the gun to feel like it's thumping a little more. 

 

 

In the end, the precieved "flatness" isn't as important as is made out to be. 

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It is likely a combination of many things all together like

its new to you so you cant predict where its going as well so you notice it more.

different recoil affecting geometries with the hammer and slide stop.

different weight slide and barrel

different grip geometry with a smaller thumb safety so you may not be using it to control flip like you do with the DVC

 

All that said it likely does rise slightly more in recoil than you DVC, so what as long as it returns to the same place that's all that matters

 

 

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It’s the stroke!  

Lock-up are similar.  Constructions are similar.

 

The slide on the 2011 travels almost half an inch further before it impacts the frame.

 

The shorter stroke on the CZ makes for a more violent and less controllable feel.

 

Also, lesser impact but still notable, the weight in the slide that’s moving is higher on the cz.  

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On 11/25/2020 at 1:47 PM, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Because your trigger finger has to compress the hammer spring.

 

Which hammer spring takes more force to compress, one rated at 19 lbs/inch or one rated at 13 lbs/inch?

I use 11.5 hammer spring

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16 hours ago, cnote said:

I have med/small hands and shoot a 2011 better than my 1911.  To each their own.  Seems backwards in theory.

 

Umm you just supported my point. It seems the ergonomics of the 2011 work better for you. I never said anything about hand size, just maybe the 2011 fits your hand better allowing you to control the recoil better. 

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