I wish Production wasn't dying

[ltdmstr]

Here's the current breakdown for the 2021 IL Sectional.

 

Division
Limited	50
Limited 10	0
Open	34
Production	35
Revolver	0
Single Stack	20
Carry Optics	42
Pcc	10

[waktasz]

20 people in single stack is a record for sure

 

[SGT_Schultz]

Ohio state match, 5 months out

 

 

KY sectional, also 5 months out

 

If the last two years are an indication, I don't think the ratios will change much.

Edited January 20 by SGT_Schultz

[ltdmstr]

20 hours ago, waktasz said:

20 people in single stack is a record for sure

 

 

I was surprised by that too.  Was also surprised that the production number is as high as it is.  Seems like for most local matches out of 80 or so entries, production is typically down to single digits.

[johnmyster]

  

On 1/4/2021 at 11:46 AM, waktasz said:

Why would allowing more guns and more modifications in Production have limited participation? 

 

On 1/6/2021 at 11:18 AM, MemphisMechanic said:

Opening up the division to 59oz custom shop DA/SA raceguns which 80% of the divison shoots REALLY chased off the 5% of the field who want the division to require a bone stock G34 with plastic sights.

 

80% vs 5%. The math checks out.

 

 

 

As a local match SS shooter in the middle third of the results, my (limited) perspective is that there's some truth here.  

 

I'm around a lot of newer shooters.  One component of participation is newer shooters.  They look around and see the people winning their class have:

1) Factory race guns.  heavy frame x5, shadows, fancy slides, etc.

2) Practiced.

 

From there it's hard to ignore that one component of the game is an equipment race and forget about the second.  Maybe someday production becomes "carry."  Weight limit consistent with carry, 15 rounds, and a barrel length restriction.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21 by johnmyster

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, johnmyster said:

  

 

 

As a local match SS shooter in the middle third of the results, my (limited) perspective is that there's some truth here.  

 

I'm around a lot of newer shooters.  One component of participation is newer shooters.  They look around and see the people winning their class have:

1) Factory race guns.  heavy frame x5, shadows, fancy slides, etc.

2) Practiced.

 

From there it's hard to ignore that one component of the game is an equipment race and forget about the second.  Maybe someday production becomes "carry."  Weight limit consistent with carry, 15 rounds, and a barrel length restriction. 

 

The opinion of new shooters is irrelevant.

 

Most of them suck so bad that they cannot grasp the fact that performance is about 90% skill and 10% equipment.

 

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

The opinion of new shooters is irrelevant.

 

Most of them suck so bad that they cannot grasp the fact that performance is about 90% skill and 10% equipment.

 

True, but they also usually don't even know the difference in the divisions. They ask me what the difference is and I say in one you can load mags full and in another you can only put 10 in a mag. Almost EVERY time they opt to load them up full.

[motosapiens]

On 1/19/2021 at 3:13 PM, B_RAD said:

I range "smack dead in the middle" is still too far for people on either coast to drive (typically). 

 

No matter what, a lot of people, probably half or more, have to fly. 

yeah, if it's not driving distance, it doesn't really matter how far it is, it just matters if the range is good and the airports are convenient and the surrounding area has an inexpensive and delicious taco place and mexican grocery store.

[motosapiens]

5 hours ago, johnmyster said:

  

 

 

As a local match SS shooter in the middle third of the results, my (limited) perspective is that there's some truth here.  

 

I'm around a lot of newer shooters.  One component of participation is newer shooters.  They look around and see the people winning their class have:

1) Factory race guns.  heavy frame x5, shadows, fancy slides, etc.

2) Practiced.

 

From there it's hard to ignore that one component of the game is an equipment race and forget about the second.  Maybe someday production becomes "carry."  Weight limit consistent with carry, 15 rounds, and a barrel length restriction.  

 

 

 

 

a 'heavy frame x5' costs less than $900. It's a decent gun for the money but it's still a loosely-fit crappy plastic gun, and hardly an 'equipment race'.

 

Having some kind of fake 'carry' division will simply result in a few high-dollar race guns built to those specs, so the people who don't practice will still make excuses. A more sensible approach would be for those people to get a race gun similar to what they carry and recognize that racing and concealed carry are different, but slightly overlapping things. If you carry a glock, race with a racy glock. If you carry a p365, race an x5 legion.  I carry a P01, so I race a shadow 2 at the moment, and still shoot the P01 at the occasional IDPA or outlaw defensive match.

[ima45dv8]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

A more sensible approach would be for those people to get a race gun similar to what they carry and recognize that racing and concealed carry are different, but slightly overlapping things.

 

I wish I had ever said it so well.

[SGT_Schultz]

Ohio state match today.  CO is still the most popular division and the gap between it and Production, Limited, and Open just keeps growing

Edited January 22 by SGT_Schultz

[Shootingaggie]

From the stats y’all been throwing up there, looks like limited 10 is dead

[cheby]

3 minutes ago, Shootingaggie said:

From the stats y’all been throwing up there, looks like limited 10 is dead

It's never been alive 

[Shootingaggie]

What was the reason for ever starting it?

[sundevil827]

1 hour ago, Shootingaggie said:

What was the reason for ever starting it?

 

 

Non-Free states.....

[Southpaw]

3 hours ago, Shootingaggie said:

What was the reason for ever starting it?

 

It was created during the federal AWB.

[SGT_Schultz]

2 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

 

It was created during the federal AWB.

 

It has never been necessary.  If it was, Open 10 would exist.

 

But it doesn't.

[Sarge]

4 hours ago, cheby said:

It's never been alive 

My first hand experience is L10 serves one overlooked purpose. It’s a division for SOME to shoot when the heat is too much in another division. If you’ve ever run a major match, you know about the phone calls and emails asking to switch to L10 after some top guns sign up in their first division choice. I can think of a couple folks that did it regularly over the years.

[waktasz]

That's serving a purpose? Just seems to mean it's a division for hiders to avoid real competition

 

Signed,

2017 Area 7 L-10 Champion 

[Sarge]

2 minutes ago, waktasz said:

That's serving a purpose? Just seems to mean it's a division for hiders to avoid real competition

 

Signed,

2017 Area 7 L-10 Champion 

You would be correct. I was just being PC for a change.

[motosapiens]

Lim10 is a division to shoot if the only guns you own are 1911's and the lim/lim10/open nats are in your backyard. I've also shot it once or twice at locals when I show up and all the stages are even more biased against SS than normal.

[RJH]

Meh, limited 10 is fun.  Where i shoot there is a solid chance there will be more L10 shooters than SS, production, or revolver.  Which means there might be 3 L10 shooters LOL.  Anyway, L10 is fun to shoot.  I don't care if it gets killed off though or rolled in with something else, but it is a fun division.

[nasty618]

On 1/21/2021 at 4:10 PM, johnmyster said:

They look around and see the people winning their class have:

1) Factory race guns.  heavy frame x5, shadows, fancy slides, etc.

2) Practiced.

 

From there it's hard to ignore that one component of the game is an equipment race and forget about the second. 

 

The next thing they do is buy a Shadow 2 that keeps winning local matches, install fancy triggers and thumb rests... and still finish 30% of the winner.  If one forgets the second component after looking at their results... Well, that's just willful ignorance.

[Jim Watson]

I am shooting mostly L10 because a.  I have a double stack .45 and b. more large primers than small.

 

My regular match is too small, and further shrunken by shortages to give real statistics, but I have the perception that there is no real difference in outcome for L10, SS, or Production.  

 

Case studies:  One recent recruit started with a TSO .40 and was moving up in the standings.  But then he got CO Fever and put a dot on a Shadow 2 which which he is also doing well.  

Another guy is getting more $erious about it.  He has about run the gamut with Glocks but is now saving up for a Czechmate or 2011.  

[Packageman]

Just starting USPSA sux production is a dying class