I wish Production wasn't dying

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, Packageman said:

Just starting USPSA sux production is a dying class

 

Trying to rush your post count to 50 in order to sell something on the classifieds?? The mods are pretty good at picking that up. 

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, Packageman said:

Just starting USPSA sux production is a dying class

 

It does suck if you don't want to incur the expense of a red dot, but it is what it is.

[nasty618]

On 1/6/2021 at 4:44 PM, rowdyb said:

2020 there were 152

 

We're at 104 one day before open reg starts.  17 Gs, 21 Ms. That's with less than half of the super squad filled and other heavy hitters still to squad. 

 

22 Gs, 37 Ms in 2020.

32 Gs, 44 Ms in 2019.

 

Not making any assertions, just a quick update in case we want to track numbers, gauge slot vs open registrations or come back to the topic of Production Nationals participation next year.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by nasty618

[DirkD]

On 1/30/2021 at 4:16 PM, nasty618 said:

 

We're at 104 one day before open reg starts.  17 Gs, 21 Ms. That's with less than half of the super squad filled and other heavy hitters still to squad. 

 

22 Gs, 37 Ms in 2020.

32 Gs, 44 Ms in 2019.

 

Not making any assertions, just a quick update in case we want to track numbers, gauge slot vs open registrations or come back to the topic of Production Nationals participation next year.

 

 

They had to throw Limited 10 and Revolver in with Production and Single Stack to fill the match, only 30 spots left, hurry up before this sells out.

[rowdyb]

And now that locap nats is full, over 190 of them want to shoot Prod.

[SGT_Schultz]

Locally (western OH), Production is dead and buried

 

Next two matches on my schedule:

 

[PatJones]

1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

Locally (western OH), Production is dead and buried

 

Next two matches on my schedule:

 

Those don't look like big numbers in general. How many shooters do you typically get at one of your local matches?

[SGT_Schultz]

13 minutes ago, PatJones said:

Those don't look like big numbers in general. How many shooters do you typically get at one of your local matches?

 

No, they're not big numbers but...............

 

The first one is a February indoor match capped at 30 people.  The second is the first outdoor match in the area, first weekend of March.

 

So between those two things and ammo/components being made of unobtanium, there you have the numbers.

 

Last year outdoor matches around here averaged about 60 shooters, but the second half of the season (June to October) averaged 75 which is about the same it was in 2019

 

I saw a steep decline in Production here from 2019 to 2020.

[SGT_Schultz]

Less than a week from the OH state match and Production is less popular than PCC.  CO dominates.

 

 

35 open spots left in Area 5 and while Production has more people than PCC, it still lags way behind the hi-cap divisions.

[balmo]

Here is the recent breakdown of Golden Bullet Championship here in Northern California

[SGT_Schultz]

29 minutes ago, balmo said:

Here is the recent breakdown of Golden Bullet Championship here in Northern California

 

Not surprising to see considering your laws and restrictions.   The gap opens considerably compared to CO in states without such laws.

[Cuz]

I think it's somewhat of a natural progression for me.  I've absolutely loved shooting a Glock in Production for the past 10+ years, but now my aging eyesight is forcing me to an optic and the easiest route to take is to mount a dot on my Glock and switch to Carry Optics.  I spent the last few years getting special glasses made so I could see the front sights, but even that has run it's course.  I like Carry Optics because I can still use all my gear, and actually hit what I'm aiming at even if it isn't all that fast.

 

My "competing" days are over, now I'm in it  for the fun.  But, I don't count against any of your numbers because I don't shoot anything but small local matches and other falling steel shoots.

[tdp88]

I think it also has a lot to do with most matches being setup for hi-cap. Most matches just aren't very "fun" for lo-cap, including most majors. The last match that was truly fun to shoot lo-cap was 2019 OK Section. So, I'd say it's really more about stage design than unpopular rule changes. 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, tdp88 said:

I think it also has a lot to do with most matches being setup for hi-cap.

 

You are saying that high round count makes lo-cap guns less fun for you?

[Racinready300ex]

11 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

You are saying that high round count makes lo-cap guns less fun for you?

 

 

He didn't say round count he said stage design. But, I do think matches that are all 32 round stages are a little lame even shooting hi-cap

 

It's hard to explain. I think it's the combination of more targets and less movement/distance between positions. There is a good chance not trying to cram as many targets into a stage as you're allowed would help. As it is, I see a lot of stages that hi-cap guys end up shooting a dozen shots from one positions or blasting a bunch of stuff on the move. And the lo-cap guys end up stopping and doing standing reloads in those places and it just doesn't look like as much fun. (standing in one place blasting isn't fun in hi-cap either IMO)

 

Last match I shot I was joking with one of the prod shooters on my squad about the stages. He mentioned after that match he was done with prod and moving to something hi-cap. So it may be a common theme. 

 

 

 

[tdp88]

15 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

You are saying that high round count makes lo-cap guns less fun for you?

I'm saying that stage designers only accounting for hi-cap divisions makes lo-cap less fun. It's not the round count, it is the design. 

[BritinUSA]

Stage design can make or break division participation.
 

One of the best stages I ever saw was 9 rounds.

[Fishbreath]

One of the nice things about the shortages and concomitant match structure changes has been the return of the short stage and the reduced willingness to pump round counts by throwing up obvious six- and eight-round arrays. I see a lot more movement and many more wide transitions this year than I did last year.

 

I've also started to adopt some stage design responsibilities at once of the clubs where I regularly attend, and as an 8-round division guy, I'm hoping to bring more locap-friendly stages to the table.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Fishbreath

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Fishbreath said:

One of the nice things about the shortages and concomitant match structure changes has been the return of the short stage and the reduced willingness to pump round counts by throwing up obvious six- and eight-round arrays. I see a lot more movement and many more wide transitions this year than I did last year.

 

I've also started to adopt some stage design responsibilities at once of the clubs where I regularly attend, and as an 8-round division guy, I'm hoping to bring more locap-friendly stages to the table.

 

this is the way.

 

If you are a hi-cap shooter, you have to do a little extra homework when designing/building a stage. I ask myself "how would I shoot this with 8 rounds in the gun?", and if the only stage plans are awkward and dumb, I try to fix that.

 

I do shoot SS for a few months every year, and there some stages where the reloads are so awkward (or close together) that I can't really compare my scores to my buddies in Lim and CO. Yeah, I know we're shooting different divisions, but at a local with 40-50 people there might only be a few shooting SS, so looking at the overall is the only way to get a good idea of how I measured up. Those kind of stages are annoying. they don't bother me as much at a major match that has some heat in SS, and they *really* don't bother me at an ss-only match.

 

[lfine]

I think once they upped capacity on CO they put a nail in Production's coffin.  And since manufacturers have taken away the extra cost to mill a slide, they've made it even more affordable to many, including the many seniors and aging members whose eyesight got worse through the years. 

(And if you don't know what I'm talking about, just wait until you hit about 40.) 

[Steve RA]

Or hit about 80 !!!  

[BritinUSA]

With three of the four main divisions utilizing hi-capacity guns, the match directors/stage designers are catering for the most popular divisions. If they had kept CO at 10 rounds then there would be almost an equal number of hi-cap/lo-cap shooters at most matches, so the stage designs would reflect that.

 

It’s the law of unintended consequences; They wrecked the balance that existed in the four main divisions.

[StuckinMS]

On 11/21/2020 at 1:17 PM, MHicks said:

I've  been primarily  SS shooter although I have started shooting some limited. It is amazing to see how quickly production numbers have dropped in some regions. Some matches I've looked at still have quite a few production shooters but other matches there's hardly any. 

Single stack is suffering too. My son loves it, but the competition is drying up. Hi capacity optics divisions have crushed the production and single stack divisions for sure. 

[RJH]

4 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

With three of the four main divisions utilizing hi-capacity guns, the match directors/stage designers are catering for the most popular divisions. If they had kept CO at 10 rounds then there would be almost an equal number of hi-cap/lo-cap shooters at most matches, so the stage designs would reflect that.

 

It’s the law of unintended consequences; They wrecked the balance that existed in the four main divisions.

I don't think so. I been watching a plethora of USPSA videos lately and most seem to be: run here shot a few, run here shoot a few, etc. Basically forced positions and little shooting on the move that seems to suit production just fine. If anything imo stages and matches seem too set up for production/minor shooting to me

[waktasz]

44 minutes ago, StuckinMS said:

Single stack is suffering too. My son loves it, but the competition is drying up. Hi capacity optics divisions have crushed the production and single stack divisions for sure. 

 

Single Stack has been dead since day one