How to lower the single action pull weight on a shadow 2

[perazzisc3]

Apart from lowering the main spring weight, trigger return spring and the sear lifter spring is there an additional way to lower the single action pull weight?

Edited November 20, 2020 by perazzisc3

[Rb43]

The TRS 

[Tok36]

As Rb43 stated, a reduced power Trigger Return Spring can get you about a half a pound. Polishing can get you a little is some cases, as well as break in from shooting it.

 

Reduced Power Trigger Return Spring

https://cajungunworks.com/product/rp-trs-reduced-power-trigger-return-spring/

Edited November 20, 2020 by Tok36

[M1A4ME]

A good aftermarket hammer from Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom along with an adjustable sear from Cajun Gun Works.

 

I have a couple with 3 lb. trigger pulls that are so crisp I've got to put the trigger pull ga. on them to prove to myself the trigger pull isn't less than the measured 3 lbs.

 

The reason for the adjustable sear is to eliminate the process of getting the safety to work again with the new hammer.  The good hammers from either vendor have a much smaller full cock notch so the original sear sits at a different angle and results in interference with the safety to sear fit up front.

[perazzisc3]

3 hours ago, M1A4ME said:

A good aftermarket hammer from Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom along with an adjustable sear from Cajun Gun Works.

 

I have a couple with 3 lb. trigger pulls that are so crisp I've got to put the trigger pull ga. on them to prove to myself the trigger pull isn't less than the measured 3 lbs.

 

The reason for the adjustable sear is to eliminate the process of getting the safety to work again with the new hammer.  The good hammers from either vendor have a much smaller full cock notch so the original sear sits at a different angle and results in interference with the safety to sear fit up front.

I have a Shadow 2 Orange, I believe it has a competition hammer. I guess I will have to live with what I have, I was hoping there was something else I could adjust or polish.

Edited November 21, 2020 by perazzisc3

[perazzisc3]

Why does some shadow 2's come from the factory with sub 3lb SA trigger pull weights? What was done different?

[SGT_Schultz]

11 hours ago, perazzisc3 said:

Why does some shadow 2's come from the factory with sub 3lb SA trigger pull weights? What was done different?

 

Because these are assembly line pistols and mass produced products have variation in them.

 

When you say sub 3 lb, how much less than 3 lbs are you talking about anyway? 

 

I think the time spent screwing around with the gun to get a sub 3 lb SA would be better spent on more productive stuff like practicing movement, transitions, reloads, and any other number of things that eat more time than going from .25 to .2 splits.

 

And is it even smart to put in a hammer that has less SA sear engagement in a pistol without a firing pin block?  It's a rhetorical question, don't need to answer......

[ck1]

On 11/19/2020 at 9:39 PM, perazzisc3 said:

Apart from lowering the main spring weight, trigger return spring and the sear lifter spring is there an additional way to lower the single action pull weight?

 

You can hit the sear-face to eliminate hammer-camming. But, it's not even worth bothering with if you haven't already added a CZC comp hammer or CGW race hammer (you need the different hook geometry the stock hammer's lack) and have gone to a lighter hammer-spring (11.5-13lb).

 

If you can pull very slowly in SA and notice the hammer moving back before releasing, that's hammer-camming. Some hammer-camming is perfectly normal with CZ's; though, a little is better than a lot for a light/crisp SA pull. If it's bad on your gun, you can hit your sear-face with some 600-grit on a hard flat surface and change the angle of the face slightly and get rid of most/all of it, just be careful to not round-off the corners or change it otherwise. You're not removing much material here, ~10 solid pulls across a brand new piece of paper is about all you'd ever need, we're talking thousandths. Puts you in the ~2lb range easy.

.

There's no need to remove too much material, don't do that. Since it's a sear, and messing with it could be dangerous, you need to test the s**t out of it after to make sure engagement is still solid and the gun is 100% safe, including some live-fire before taking it to a match. You need to make sure the trigger resets, the hammer will not follow and/or fall to half-cock, or do any sort of bad stuff you don't want it to do well before it ever gets near live rounds. CZ sears don't have the reputation of being very hard, be mindful of that. OEM CZ sears aren't expensive to replace if you were to somehow ruin yours, but I don't recommend going so far that you'd ever need one. A spare never hurts to have around, and maybe just trying a different sear might be an improvement in some guns.

 

That said, once you've upgraded the hammer to a CZC/CGW, the change in hook/shelf geometry is usually enough to where it gets you at least a 3lb trigger or better, that usually becomes a ~2lb trigger after a couple/few thousand rounds/dry-fires. Many times there's no reason to touch the sear and it's just better to shoot it a bunch.

Edited November 28, 2020 by ck1

[MoRivera]

Yeah...gotta be careful, I've known some guys who had felt they honed away a small amount, but ended up wearing through the surface hardness treatment, so it ended up wearing away more as he shot it  On one, after some time shooting (several matches) the gun started going full-auto....at a match!

[M1A4ME]

I installed a CZC trigger in one of mine.  On their website they recommended also installing their extra power sear spring.  That helps insure the sear has more force pushing it upwards faster/harder (?) to catch that shallow full cock notch on the hammer.  

 

The shallower that notch (stock vs. aftermarket) the lighter/crisper that trigger pull can be.

 

Seems like I've also seen/read where some people say going to a lower powered hammer spring doesn't do much for SA trigger pull.  Lower the DA trigger pull?  Sure.  Just not the SA trigger pull.  They've said you can actually get a better feeling trigger with the heavier hammer spring vs. the lighter spring (not to mention increased reliability with harder primers.)

 

Not sure a S2 Orange comes with a good CZC hammer?  Or does it?

 

I know my Tactical Sport has a 1.7 lb. SA trigger pull and it does not have the factory hammer in the frame.

[MoRivera]

I ordered a CZ round-spur hammer that comes on the 'standard' TS, and I tried it in one of my Shadows.  that hammer has notes that tare so tiny the the resulting SA break must have been less than a pound!  It actually scared me a bit it was also light and I took sth hammer out, login with a CGW competition hammer instead.  

 

I know some TS's come with stock trigger-breaks that are crazy light, and I can see why.  This just felt unsafe to me, even with a 16-lb hammer spring.  I was thinking that perhaps since the sear cage in an SP01 can move a bit...as opposed to in a TS that has two tiny springs securing it in place more....that may have something to do with it.  In which case I'm glad that it can have at least some leeway of safe engagement with the other competition hammers.

 

Edit: actually scratch that being a TS hammer, because it had to be a Shadow hammer to work double-action in the Shadow, so wow was it light!

Edited November 29, 2020 by MoRivera

[mgenerallo]

My trigger pull was 3.5# on my Shadow 2 SAO.

I changed the trigger return spring for a lighter one and added a 13# hammer spring.

This reduced my trigger pull to a crisp and predictable 2.5#.

I also put on a red dot and change to G-10 grips from Cool Hand Gear.

This gun is an absolute tack driver and I have replaced my S&W 52 with it, it shoots that good.

 

 

[George16]

On 11/19/2020 at 10:39 PM, perazzisc3 said:

Apart from lowering the main spring weight, trigger return spring and the sear lifter spring is there an additional way to lower the single action pull weight?

My SA pull weight went down to 1# 9.9 oz after installing a CGW race hammer, CGW adjustable sear, short reset disco, 11.5# main spring, 11# recoil spring and CGW trigger return spring. 
 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by George16
Added info

[mgenerallo]

I shoot bullseye and 2.5# is about as low as I can go and not be challenged on the trigger weight. 

My shooting buddy has a TSO and his is 1.7# and I find it too light for rapid fire-too easy to get a double tap when you don't want one.

 

[perazzisc3]

Does anyone know for certain if the shadow 2 ORANGE comes from the factory with a competition hammer?

 

[FALAR]

On 11/20/2020 at 4:02 PM, M1A4ME said:

A good aftermarket hammer from Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom along with an adjustable sear from Cajun Gun Works.

 

I have a couple with 3 lb. trigger pulls that are so crisp I've got to put the trigger pull ga. on them to prove to myself the trigger pull isn't less than the measured 3 lbs.

 

The reason for the adjustable sear is to eliminate the process of getting the safety to work again with the new hammer.  The good hammers from either vendor have a much smaller full cock notch so the original sear sits at a different angle and results in interference with the safety to sear fit up front.

 

Strangely, every Shadow 2 I've had except one came back from CZC with a heavier but better SA trigger after a race hammer, short resetdisco trigger job.  And that's because that one S2 came out of the box with a 3.75lb trigger for some reason.

 

The rest were always 2.75 to 3.25 after installing a 12lb hammer spring but then after I got them back from CZC were in the 3 to 3.5 range with nearly all the take-up gone as well as a cleaner release and shorter reset.  

[MicahSwan]

On 11/27/2020 at 9:57 PM, ck1 said:

 

You can hit the sear-face to eliminate hammer-camming. But, it's not even worth bothering with if you haven't already added a CZC comp hammer or CGW race hammer (you need the different hook geometry the stock hammer's lack) and have gone to a lighter hammer-spring (11.5-13lb).

 

If you can pull very slowly in SA and notice the hammer moving back before releasing, that's hammer-camming. Some hammer-camming is perfectly normal with CZ's; though, a little is better than a lot for a light/crisp SA pull. If it's bad on your gun, you can hit your sear-face with some 600-grit on a hard flat surface and change the angle of the face slightly and get rid of most/all of it, just be careful to not round-off the corners or change it otherwise. You're not removing much material here, ~10 solid pulls across a brand new piece of paper is about all you'd ever need, we're talking thousandths. Puts you in the ~2lb range easy.

.

There's no need to remove too much material, don't do that. Since it's a sear, and messing with it could be dangerous, you need to test the s**t out of it after to make sure engagement is still solid and the gun is 100% safe, including some live-fire before taking it to a match. You need to make sure the trigger resets, the hammer will not follow and/or fall to half-cock, or do any sort of bad stuff you don't want it to do well before it ever gets near live rounds. CZ sears don't have the reputation of being very hard, be mindful of that. OEM CZ sears aren't expensive to replace if you were to somehow ruin yours, but I don't recommend going so far that you'd ever need one. A spare never hurts to have around, and maybe just trying a different sear might be an improvement in some guns.

 

That said, once you've upgraded the hammer to a CZC/CGW, the change in hook/shelf geometry is usually enough to where it gets you at least a 3lb trigger or better, that usually becomes a ~2lb trigger after a couple/few thousand rounds/dry-fires. Many times there's no reason to touch the sear and it's just better to shoot it a bunch.

Yes, this. 
But like he said pay attention that means only so many pulls across the paper. 
I also hit the hammer itself where the sear engages with 1500 grit paper, (only to polish not to remove material! and being careful of maintaining angle)  this and a 10# hammer spring from EG, has the Single pull in the $$$$$. 

All the above considered though, and I still think much of what I did was a waste of time.
None of it made me better. The only way that I improved was daily dry fire...   

[Packageman]

Polishing internals can help 

[Howar438]

On 11/28/2020 at 4:55 PM, MoRivera said:

Yeah...gotta be careful, I've known some guys who had felt they honed away a small amount, but ended up wearing through the surface hardness treatment, so it ended up wearing away more as he shot it  On one, after some time shooting (several matches) the gun started going full-auto....at a match!

Ok hold on what do I have to file on the sear to make this happen? Lmao

[MoRivera]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:15 PM, Howar438 said:

Ok hold on what do I have to file on the sear to make this happen? Lmao

Probably where the sear hammer notch.  So it's just enough to hold when it's cocked manually, but unfortunately once it fires it won't stop until mag is empty.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:15 PM, Howar438 said:

Ok hold on what do I have to file on the sear to make this happen? Lmao