Sp01 red dot options

[Max It]

sooo, i just bought a Meprolight; comes with a mount that is also  a self-illuminated backup night sight that provides a clear aiming point in case of power failure with that glows brightly without requiring batteries; night sight when the red dot is removed. ingenious. 

also i spoke to Mepro and they are developing part numbers to offer the mounts separately: i will be able to buy that part (if it is priced right) and put the optic on my Glock and other pistols.

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Max It

[SGT_Schultz]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:47 AM, MoRivera said:

Need be clear though as to whether your gun is a 'regular' SP01 (with internal firing pin block), or a Shadow.

 

It doesn't matter.  CZ Custom's plate system works for both.

[ultimase]

4 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

It doesn't matter.  CZ Custom's plate system works for both.

 

There might be some confusion here. For the plate system where the slide is milled, no there doesn't appear to be a difference between the regular or the shadow. But the dovetail "plate" yes there is a difference between the regular and the shadow models.

[SGT_Schultz]

32 minutes ago, ultimase said:

 

There might be some confusion here. For the plate system where the slide is milled, no there doesn't appear to be a difference between the regular or the shadow. But the dovetail "plate" yes there is a difference between the regular and the shadow models.

 

Well, the person I quoted didn't make that distinction.

 

In any case, I don't consider dovetail mounts acceptable solutions so I don't even think about them when discussing this topic.

[TheIceman93]

8 hours ago, Max It said:

sooo, i just bought a Meprolight; comes with a mount that is also  a self-illuminated backup night sight that provides a clear aiming point in case of power failure with that glows brightly without requiring batteries; night sight when the red dot is removed. ingenious. 

also i spoke to Mepro and they are developing part numbers to offer the mounts separately: i will be able to buy that part (if it is priced right) and put the optic on my Glock and other pistols.

 

 

Please post your thoughts on this setup and post pictures please. I'm very interested in this system. I'm also located in OC. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by TheIceman93

[SGT_Schultz]

8 hours ago, Max It said:

sooo, i just bought a Meprolight; comes with a mount that is also  a self-illuminated backup night sight that provides a clear aiming point in case of power failure with that glows brightly without requiring batteries; night sight when the red dot is removed. ingenious. 

also i spoke to Mepro and they are developing part numbers to offer the mounts separately: i will be able to buy that part (if it is priced right) and put the optic on my Glock and other pistols.

 

 

Is this it?

 

https://www.meprolight.com/what-is-your-aim/?tax_platform=55&tax_brand=any&tax_model=any&tax_product_cat=any&tax_sight_type=127&tax_application=any&tax_manification=any&tax_day_night=any

 

If so, it's just another dovetail mounting solution..........pass

Edited November 27, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[TheIceman93]

33 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Is this it?

 

https://www.meprolight.com/what-is-your-aim/?tax_platform=55&tax_brand=any&tax_model=any&tax_product_cat=any&tax_sight_type=127&tax_application=any&tax_manification=any&tax_day_night=any

 

If so, it's just another dovetail mounting solution..........pass

 

Yes but it does solve a few issues. It doesn't require slide milling and it still has backup irons built into the mount. Maybe its a gimmick but it looks like a good option for people who want a red dot but still wants backup irons and don't want to permanently alter their slide.  

[teros135]

Some folks seem to be dead set against dovetail mounts (reasons unclear), but I can't figure out why they'd not be viable.  I've been shooting two guns with these for more than a year (one CZ Custom, one Henning), and both are running great.  I can't see how cuts would make the gun (or me) a better shooter.  Don't just toss this option off.

[ultimase]

15 hours ago, teros135 said:

Some folks seem to be dead set against dovetail mounts (reasons unclear), but I can't figure out why they'd not be viable.  I've been shooting two guns with these for more than a year (one CZ Custom, one Henning), and both are running great.  I can't see how cuts would make the gun (or me) a better shooter.  Don't just toss this option off.

 

The main thing I can think of after playing with both a czc's milled and a dovetail plate is the height of the red dot. This might make a difference if you've been training that draw to present the iron sights at the same level every time. You will likely be slightly low to find the red dot immediately and will have to adjust slightly down to pick it up. I think this is trainable, but then it becomes a question on if you want to do that, and will it throw your presentation on other firearms. There is also the argument of the red dot in association to bore axis (think very high scopes on a rifle or very high risers on a red dot on a rifle), but honestly that will vary based on the ranges that you are engaging.

 

There are some people in this thread that are dead set against them, and that's fine. But there are options worth considering. 

[MoRivera]

On 11/26/2020 at 12:52 PM, SGT_Schultz said:

 

It doesn't matter.  CZ Custom's plate system works for both.

I was referring to if he wanted to get an additional complete slide milled for optic, like I did.  Depending on if you're getting one for an SP01 Shadow or a regular SP01/SP01 Tactical, there is a difference as to which slide will work when interchanging with your lower, since the Shadow models don't incorporate a firing pin block...assuming that he wouldn't take it out of a regular SP01.

 

20 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Well, the person I quoted didn't make that distinction.

 

In any case, I don't consider dovetail mounts acceptable solutions so I don't even think about them when discussing this topic.

I was responding to the poster immediately above, with whom I was discussing interchanging complete slides just a few posts before.

Edited November 27, 2020 by MoRivera

[MoRivera]

1 hour ago, ultimase said:

 

The main thing I can think of after playing with both a czc's milled and a dovetail plate is the height of the red dot. This might make a difference if you've been training that draw to present the iron sights at the same level every time. You will likely be slightly low to find the red dot immediately and will have to adjust slightly down to pick it up. I think this is trainable, but then it becomes a question on if you want to do that, and will it throw your presentation on other firearms. There is also the argument of the red dot in association to bore axis (think very high scopes on a rifle or very high risers on a red dot on a rifle), but honestly that will vary based on the ranges that you are engaging.

 

There are some people in this thread that are dead set against them, and that's fine. But there are options worth considering. 

I definitely like my red dot as 'buried' as can be and low to slide since it matches up the best with how I line up iron sights, especially since I still shoot a lot of iron sights.

 

For my Shadow with a TS slide, I originally tried a dovetail adapter plate and it wasn't bad since the rear sight cut is already rather buried for an LPA adjustable.  But I still didn't like how the plate coupled to the slide (just in the dovetail area with everything else kind of 'suspended' up over the slide) and wanted it lower.  So like with my normal CZ Shadow, I ordered another TS slide (already fitted to use on SP01 frame) milled for a Vortex Viper.....a red dot which itself sits pretty low as well.

 

Thing is...when I got it, this is how low it sat......

 

 

Which is REALLY low.  So low in fact that....because the bores/sightlines on CZ's actually point a bit down as opposed to exactly parallel with rails...the dot was actually a little below the muzzle when lined up...even without a front sight post!  Why so low?  Because they had to mill down to the bottom level of the original dovetail, which is already really down there on that buried LPA cut.  

 

 

I didn't really consider this when I requested the milling for this specific red dot unit, as it wasn't the case on my 'regular' Shadow slide with less of a 'buried' rear sight.  So I was at first pretty bummed, but a mechanical engineer that I shoot with offered to fabricate a 1/8" riser plate that would fit that original cut and that I could screw through with longer mount screws. And then I added the four corner 'pins' so I ended up making a mounting plate anyway but only to make up for the extreme depth of the cut.  The riser plate put the red dot at the perfect height where the housing is still nice and low but the red dot is right about at the level of normal iron sights and clears the muzzle fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's super stable since the bottom off the plate is contoured to couple/fit snug like the Viper did (and like plate systems on other guns), and the top of the plate has the four registration pins....keeping all the stress and risk of shearing off the mounting screws.  And the height is perfect. So just a word of caution to others, make sure you're going to have the kind of height and clearance you want when doing a direct-mill-job on a slide for a specific model or optic...ESPECIALLY on a CZ.  I was actually lucky in this case, because I couldn't have just swapped out another red dot in the original milling since the Venom and Fastfire have slightly different body dimensions than the Viper for which it was cut for.

Edited November 27, 2020 by MoRivera

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, MoRivera said:

I was referring to if he wanted to get an additional complete slide milled for optic, like I did.  Depending on if you're getting one for an SP01 Shadow or a regular SP01/SP01 Tactical, there is a difference as to which slide will work when interchanging with your lower, since the Shadow models don't incorporate a firing pin block...assuming that he wouldn't take it out of a regular SP01.

 

I was responding to the poster immediately above, with whom I was discussing interchanging complete slides just a few posts before.

 

Then quote whomever you're responding to.  Otherwise it's just a comment without context

 

It's common sense

Edited November 27, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[MoRivera]

The person I was responding to seemed to get the context just fine.

Edited November 27, 2020 by MoRivera

[Max It]

Two good reasons discussed above however there is a third in favor of Meprolight:

the sight can be swapped independent of the mount easily.

Mepro is now developing separate part numbers for mounts. 

i want to use same sight on Glock and other guns.

 

[ML123]

19 hours ago, MoRivera said:

I was referring to if he wanted to get an additional complete slide milled for optic, like I did.  Depending on if you're getting one for an SP01 Shadow or a regular SP01/SP01 Tactical, there is a difference as to which slide will work when interchanging with your lower, since the Shadow models don't incorporate a firing pin block...assuming that he wouldn't take it out of a regular SP01.

 

 

This started life as a SP-01 manual safety with a FBP.   All you have to do to use a non-FBP slide is remove the FBP lifter from the sear cage and replace it with a spacer which I believe both CZC and GCW sell.  It can also be swapped back to a FBP just as easily.  I would think this would be more complicated on a decocker model though?

[MoRivera]

3 hours ago, ML123 said:

This started life as a SP-01 manual safety with a FBP.   All you have to do to use a non-FBP slide is remove the FBP lifter from the sear cage and replace it with a spacer which I believe both CZC and GCW sell.  It can also be swapped back to a FBP just as easily.  I would think this would be more complicated on a decocker model though?

Right which is why I mentioned " ...assuming that he wouldn't take it out of a regular SP01." and wanted to keep a Shadow a Shadow, or a 75B a 75B.  I have also built a Shadow in the past from what was originally a regular SP01 frame and a Shadow slide (since I now have multiples), using both a CGW adjustable sear as well as the spacer in place of the firing pin block lifter.  That's simple, but the other way around.....a Shadow frame and a regular SP01 slide, you'd have to take out the firing pin block plunger which some have done, but is more specifically removing a safety feature specific to that slide/model and would technically make it an illegal gun for competition I believe, if that matters. 

 

Also, if (as discussed) one was looking to have two interchgangeable slides for the same frame...probably preferable that they're both for the same type of gun rather than having to switch a lifter/spacer each time you switch slides form irons to optics, or again having to remove a firing pin plunger and making it illegal for competition, if applicable.

 

And yes, decocker model sear cages are a pain in the ass to work on from my experiences...mostly because of the slave pin et al getting it back into the frame, not necessarily because of the lifter.  Maybe it gets easier over time, but after a few times it's easy to never want to do it again.  I actually don't even think the decocker models can function without the firing pin block lifter, but I've never tried doing that and can't imagine why anyone would....seeing the the whole idea of having a decocker (even though the CZs decock to half-cock) is to lower the hammer without lifting a firing pin block out of the way.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by MoRivera

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, ML123 said:

This started life as a SP-01 manual safety with a FBP.   All you have to do to use a non-FBP slide is remove the FBP lifter from the sear cage and replace it with a spacer which I believe both CZC and GCW sell.  It can also be swapped back to a FBP just as easily.  I would think this would be more complicated on a decocker model though?

 

The decoker models aren't any more complicated to work on than the safety only models.

 

The FPB lifter is in the same place on both.  The spacer should work just as well.

 

Having said that, the infinitesimal gain trigger quality that a non-FPB slide gets you is not worth it to me over the safety a FPB provides.

 

In addition, the decocker system is completely out of the way of the DA trigger pull and so the DA can be made just as nice on a decocker pistol as it can be on a safety-only CZ.

 

BTW that SRO installation looks awesome and much lower than where it sits on my P-09.  I have a tuned up 75BD (my first Production gun) sitting around doing nothing.  Maybe a trip to Mesa for some slide milling is what it needs.

Edited November 28, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[MoRivera]

That decocker sear cage is a pain though, with the slave pin, etc.  The little lifter spring is the cherry on top.

Edited November 28, 2020 by MoRivera

[Max It]

On 11/26/2020 at 5:24 PM, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Is this it?

 

https://www.meprolight.com/what-is-your-aim/?tax_platform=55&tax_brand=any&tax_model=any&tax_product_cat=any&tax_sight_type=127&tax_application=any&tax_manification=any&tax_day_night=any

 

If so, it's just another dovetail mounting solution..........pass

yes. and Dovetail does affect the parallax. a lot. i am not sure what i am going to do with it. i could still mill the slide. now that i had the old target and fibre optic sights cut out i need a new solution.

although milling is one, i am not comfortable yet with the Meprolight red dot. I have another on a Ruger 22/45 which works well, some parallax issue. and a Trijicon ACOG on an AR15 no issues. 

the debate goes on ...for me at least.

[SGT_Schultz]

46 minutes ago, Max It said:

yes. and Dovetail does affect the parallax. a lot. i am not sure what i am going to do with it. i could still mill the slide. now that i had the old target and fibre optic sights cut out i need a new solution.

although milling is one, i am not comfortable yet with the Meprolight red dot. I have another on a Ruger 22/45 which works well, some parallax issue. and a Trijicon ACOG on an AR15 no issues. 

the debate goes on ...for me at least.

 

There's nothing to debate.  It's been settled.

 

1st option: get a pistol that comes set up to take optical sights

2nd option: get yours milled

 

There really is no other option.

 

Parallax is irrelevant unless you deliberately look completely off axis through the sight.  And even then, it's almost a non issue.

 

Even extrapolating this to 25 - 30 yards it's a non issue for practical applications.

[ima45dv8]

17 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

There's nothing to debate.  It's been settled.

I believe it has been settled for you.

The others here are welcome to their opinions, too.

[ultimase]

2 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

I believe it has been settled for you.

The others here are welcome to their opinions, too.

 

Thank you, there are a lot of options available, and everyone's circumstances will be different. After handling both a dovetrail plate cz and one that was milled I can see the advantages. But then I go a steel shoot and everyone there was running a dovetail plate. Different people different priorities. 

[SGT_Schultz]

4 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

I believe it has been settled for you.

The others here are welcome to their opinions, too.

 

I should have been more clear.  The parallax question is pretty much settled.  Some may not want to believe the evidence but that's neither here nor there.

 

As for the rest of everything else, I agree it's personal preference mostly.

[shred]

There's parallax and dot-offset.  People confuse them.

 

If dot-offset was a huge thing Open shooters would use the lowest-possible dots, and they don't.  For years the winningest Open sight was the old vertical big C-more, a couple inches over the bore line even though there were plenty of options available that had the dot lower down.

 

As for dovetail plates versus side-mount or plates.  There's a lot more noise and preference about the difference than there is in reality.  I run the same times and points with a dovetail-mount dot as a direct-mount on a Shadow 2 OR.   I prefer milled-in, but there's little sign of any difference on the scoresheet.