DG 180gr FP - Bullet ogive seating below case mouth - problem?

[supergravy]

Hello,

 

I just received my first order of DG Bullets 180gr and am experiencing an issue that I cannot find much info about.  I am loading 10mm using starline brass and find that even when the bullet is seated to maximum COL of 1.26" the ogive of the bullet is slightly below the case mouth.  With other 180gr bullets I usually have a little shoulder above the case mouth.  I have attached a picture of the bullet in question next to a Lasercast 180gr and you can see how the shape of the DG bullet differs.

 

I would like to know if anyone thinks this will be a problem?  After crimping just enough to remove the bell, the finished cartridges look pretty good and hand cycle fine.  I am thinking that the only issue will be a slightly longer jump to the rifling.  

 

I only have one 10mm, a Glock 20, and it looks like I can load to a slightly longer than spec COL of 1.27 and the rounds still fit in the magazine.  The ogive is still below the case mouth but getting close at this length. I have 700 of these bullets and hope they will shoot just fine.  I have already loaded, and shot, some 9mm DG bullets that shot great without any leading.

 

Appreciate your thoughts.

[supergravy]

Here is a pic of the finished rounds.

[noylj]

If it works, OK. However...

Max COL is for the industry so ammo will be safe in all guns.

Make a couple of inert rounds (no powder/primer) and find out how long a COL will work in your pistol with your magazine.

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as 

1) magazine length (space), 

2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel, 

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and 

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the ‘Start Load.’"

 

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel). 

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

[HesedTech]

19 hours ago, supergravy said:

I just received my first order of DG Bullets 180gr and am experiencing an issue that I cannot find much info about.

I don’t load 10mm, but do 40sw and what appears to being going on is these just aren’t the right Bullets for 10mm. 
 

The bullet profile is perfect for the shorter 40 case, but according to your pics seems to taper too far for 10mm 

 

The only answer is this, I hope you only bought a sample amount because they aren’t the perfect bullet for 10. The good news is load em up for 40 and if you don’t own a 40 chambered gun you now have a valid excuse to buy one. 

[supergravy]

Thank you both for your replies to this! 

 

HesedTech you have definitely called it on the problem, this bullet just isn't right for 10mm.  Funny enough I now notice that my favorite bullet producer (ACME) redesigned their 180gr flat point.  The original bullet is shaped just like these DG's and newer design looks to be shorter and fatter up top.  I just wish that they had these in stock.  I used to have a number of 40sw's but went through a caliber consolidation when I stocked up on reloading supplies.  As I don't have any 40sw brass or loaded ammo I am going to skip buying a new gun in this caliber, but I like where your head is at.  Hopefully these 10mm rounds will shoot decent as I have quite a few of them to blast through.

 

Noylj - I have already done most of what you instructed.  Unfortunately I found that magazine length limits me to around 1.27 COL.  This bullet will plunk in the chamber well beyond 1.40.  I do really appreciate your numbered guide on reading the scratches as this step is relatively new to me.  In this case, the rounds chamber pretty smoothly but I do see some occasional scratches around the case lip so I am going to give them a smidge more taper crimp.

 

I am still wondering if there are any possible problems I will run into having the ogive seated below the case mouth.  I think it is going to be fine and am guessing the potential issues are just accuracy or leading (If I over crimp).  I am hoping to get out and shoot a few of these today so will know soon.

[TheHooter]

Supergravy, any update on this? I'm gearing up to reload 10mm myself. Does anybody have any experience with 180gr Blues loaded for 10mm?

[supergravy]

I am way, way late providing any updates. While I can load and shoot this bullet in 10mm everything about it is suboptimal. When I load it to my usual COL of 1.26 the bullet ogive is below the case mouth. In this situation you are bound to get dirt, lint, whatever gathering in that gap. And accuracy for me was meh. Most importantly it leaves a lot of bullet stuffed into the case increasing pressure. I didn't load anywhere near max but this load was really snappy while providing relatively low velocity.

 

Loading them long, just under 1.27 COL, they don't feed 100%. But they did shoot fairly accurately and gave expected velocity.

 

I ended up buying some Acme 180gr FP's and am not looking back. It is a relatively short bullet that is similar in dimension to 180gr XTP's. They are shooting great and giving me the velocity I want without any signs of excess pressure.

[Farmer]

On 12/7/2020 at 5:08 AM, TheHooter said:

Supergravy, any update on this? I'm gearing up to reload 10mm myself. Does anybody have any experience with 180gr Blues loaded for 10mm?

The blues are kinda similar, if I load them to 1.250, but at 1.260-.265 they get off of the ogive enough. I’ll have to look back but I think I settled on 1.265. The 170gn Precision Bullets can be loaded shorter with no problem.