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S2 and heavier weight ammo?


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Guy in my squad had multiple failures with his Shadow 2 in his first stage. After that first stage, it ran without issue. I asked what happened and he said the problem was ammo. He was running 147 and switched to 125 and it ran perfectly. He said he had heard that S2’s didn’t do well with heavier weight ammo. 

 

He also said he had just gotten the S2 and it was his first time shooting it in a match, so I’m guessing he hadn’t done any changes.

 

I’ve never ran anything but 124 and 115 grain in my S2. But I was planning to pick up some 147 competition loads when ammo becomes available again. But now, I’m thinking I should probably stick with 124. I’m running a 13# hammer spring and 13# recoil spring.

 

Has anyone else has problems with 147 grain ammo in a Shadow 2?

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Only have shot 147 through 5 different Shadow 2s since they came out, years ago. He is probably running up against the well known CZs like shorter ammo issue.

 

As far as performance I have found a 147 going 900fps or faster is better.

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Which 147’s run in the S2’s that you’ve shot?

 

The only issue I ever had with mine was Freedom Munitions 124 grain. Ammo ran fine at the range to slide lock. But in matches, it didn’t want to extract at show clear. Locked up the pistol for a bit before finally extracting. Happened 2-3 times at a match this summer. Did the plunk test and found that it wouldn’t drop free. 

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10 minutes ago, Stafford said:

Which ones work? If I’m buying 147 for competition, I’m probably looking for Federal Syntech. If it ever comes back in stock.

 

I have some 124 grain Syntech and ran one box without issue. 

 

99% of the people who use 9 mm 147 gr ammoo in USPSA are reloaders.

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1 hour ago, Stafford said:

I know there’s value, but it’s just not something I’m interested in doing. At least for now. 

 

Point is, most of us have no idea what factory load is going to work in CZs because we just don't use any.

 

I cannot remember the last time I put store-bought ammunition (except self defense loads for function test) through any of my handguns (semi autos and revolvers alike).

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At a match last weekend, I didn’t bring enough ammo. A buddy lent me some of his factory loads including some 150gr Syntech. It ran fine in my S2 OR which has an extremely short throat. I did not plunk. I’ve got a few rounds left over, I’ll plunk it for your info. That person also has an S2 that he runs it in. 

 

Edited by mpmo
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6 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Point is, most of us have no idea what factory load is going to work in CZs because we just don't use any.

 

I cannot remember the last time I put store-bought ammunition (except self defense loads for function test) through any of my handguns (semi autos and revolvers alike).

THIS!

 

A neighbor who bought one of my Shadow 2 guns bought thousands of Precision Delta 147 rounds and they worked perfectly in the gun. That is the only manufactured ammo I know for a fact will work in one of my guns that is 147gr.

 

I have heard from other shooters that the 147 from Atlanta Arms, Orr Tactical and Precision Delta all work in Shadow 2. (if you GAVE me a pallet of FM ammo I would sell it, even in today's lack of availability I'd rather have almost anything else) A girl I know who shoots the Syntech often has feeding issues as well. So yeah. Sadly right now it is hard to buy 100 rounds of something to try and then buy 5 to 10 thousand of what you like.

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I only have about 500 rounds through my S2 so far, but here's my experience.  I used 150gr Syntech in a match 2 weeks ago and it ran with no issues.  I also tried some Blazer 147gr, again without problems.  The only ammo I've had an issue with so far was 115gr Winchester USA Forged, which is steel cased.  I am relatively new to the sport and don't reload yet, so I usually end up with a mish-mash of whatever factory ammo I can get my hands on.

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I ran some 147 gr American Eagle through my Shadow 2 with no problems. Of course, I reload like most everyone here so I don't run much factory ammo of any kind. For what it's worth, I load Xtreme 147s to an OAL of 1.15 inches and they always work fine. Maybe measure some factory rounds with a caliper?

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On 11/15/2020 at 6:16 AM, Stafford said:

Which 147’s run in the S2’s that you’ve shot?

 

The only issue I ever had with mine was Freedom Munitions 124 grain. Ammo ran fine at the range to slide lock. But in matches, it didn’t want to extract at show clear. Locked up the pistol for a bit before finally extracting. Happened 2-3 times at a match this summer. Did the plunk test and found that it wouldn’t drop free. 

All the 147s I've ever reloaded and it is quite a few brands worked fine.  Don't recall which now.

 

I suggest all try to find the article Bullet Design And Feeding Reliability In Semi-Automatic Pistols by Brad Miller, Ph.D. on the internet.  Original article as published 7-16-2010.  The site where this was posted is now defunct.  The link I have is http://38super.net/Pages/Bullet Design and Feeding Reliability.html.

 

A newer version of the article was print in 2013 by Guns and Ammo under the title Miller, B. Keep that gun running; An in-depth look at bullet nose design and feeding reliability in semiauto pistols  in Guns and Ammo 2013 Annual pages 171-176. I don't recall significant changes compared to the original.  I located a copy and purchased a few years ago.

 

The soft copy I have is the 2017. There are notes added to the start pertaining to the Guns and Ammo article and one at the end from the person who published the article and carries page dates ot 2017 but is a repost the 2010 with the additions noted. 

 

This article also provide answer(s) to  "why" for the comment "CZs have short chambers (or throats)...."

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  • 1 month later...

After reading this thread, I was curious about 147's, so I measured mine before trying them... all where loaded to standard length. I bought a new S2 OR last week and all the goodies... Mounted a Holosun 507, did the grip change, spring change, lube and set out to run it in the weekend match. Arrived early to zero the dot and to my amazement the Holosun was zero'd out of the box - fired three shots freehand from 15 yds to check - all "A" hits inside 2". Proceeded on with the match and was very pleased with the new popper! Absolutely no issues with 147's and the gun felt surprising good right outta the box (I've been running STI's for a couple years - so I anticipated some issues to adapt). Really looking forward to this next season in CO.

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2 hours ago, kalaikanui said:

After reading this thread, I was curious about 147's, so I measured mine before trying them... all where loaded to standard length. I bought a new S2 OR last week and all the goodies... Mounted a Holosun 507, did the grip change, spring change, lube and set out to run it in the weekend match. Arrived early to zero the dot and to my amazement the Holosun was zero'd out of the box - fired three shots freehand from 15 yds to check - all "A" hits inside 2". Proceeded on with the match and was very pleased with the new popper! Absolutely no issues with 147's and the gun felt surprising good right outta the box (I've been running STI's for a couple years - so I anticipated some issues to adapt). Really looking forward to this next season in CO.

Which company did you end up going with im thinking of getting a shadow or here in the near future and don't reload myself.

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On 11/15/2020 at 5:17 PM, rowdyb said:

(if you GAVE me a pallet of FM ammo I would sell it, even in today's lack of availability I'd rather have almost anything else)

Rowdy, if someone gives you a pallet of ammo I'll take it off your hands. :)

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13 hours ago, wchangose said:

Rowdy, if someone gives you a pallet of ammo I'll take it off your hands. :)

hahaha, I have to admit that was hyperbole. More accurately if I was allowed to choose a brand of ammo of which I'd receive a pallet full then FM would be very low on my list. Even if I wasn't paying for it. You could make a return trip to San Antonio though to pick up said hypothetical pallet.

 

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I don't load 9mm because outside of panic times lik we are in now it is too cheap to be worth the time and trouble to me.

 

Before getting my first Shadow 2 I had heard about CZ's reputation for short chambers.  I had already owned 9mm Tanfoglios which have the same reputation and had plunk tested my CZs since my Tanfoglios did fail with some ammo.  Seeing as I only buy heavier/longer subsonic 9mm now I made sure to test any new gun for a short chamber.

 

I have plunk tested and successfully fired the following without issue in the SP-01, Shadow 1, and Shadow 2:

 

IMI 158 

Fiocchi 158

Federal AE 147 FN

Federal AE 147 TMJ 

Winchester 147 TCMC (much longer than the Federal flat nose)

Federal HST 147 JHP

 

Which is everything I have on hand.  None of my CZs have ever failed a plunk test or failed to feed a 147 or longer due to COAL.

 

 

Edited by FALAR
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On 11/15/2020 at 8:16 AM, Stafford said:

Which 147’s run in the S2’s that you’ve shot?

 

The only issue I ever had with mine was Freedom Munitions 124 grain. Ammo ran fine at the range to slide lock. But in matches, it didn’t want to extract at show clear. Locked up the pistol for a bit before finally extracting. Happened 2-3 times at a match this summer. Did the plunk test and found that it wouldn’t drop free. 

bullet weight is only one variable,, and probably one of the least important variables involved in running a gun. ( well the going bang part)

OAL,  powder type and charge, springs.... OP didnt mention what the malfunction was.
As the above thread shows, its nothing to do with bullet weight, its about length and bullet profile.  Seems these were loaded to a length just barely too long, Were sticking in the rifling, but just enough the gun would still fire. Eventually that will bite you in the butt when you get a round on the long side of the makers specs. Gun doesnt fire AND its locked up.

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