Checking Others Scores?

[Stafford]

Shot a local indoor match and after the first stage a guy walked up and said I guess it’s me and you... We were both in CO and I guess he had evaluated the top shooters and determined that we were fighting it out for who would finish at the bottom of CO. Of course, that leaves out other squads. I’m a C level in Production that recently switched to Carry Optics. Since I hadn’t seen him before, I assume he’s new to USPSA. 

 

It’s common for some of the guys who’ve been squadding together to have friendly banter and competition among themselves. But this was a bit weird. After each stage, he went and asked what my Hit Factor was. It’s human nature to compare yourself to others in your squad. But no sooner than I had seen my score, he would walk up and ask to see it. 

 

In any event, he was a nice guy and I talked with him a bit. Hopefully, he’ll continue to come out. Has anyone else ever encountered someone “competing” like that within a squad. 

[Racinready300ex]

5 minutes ago, Stafford said:

Shot a local indoor match and after the first stage a guy walked up and said I guess it’s me and you... We were both in CO and I guess he had evaluated the top shooters and determined that we were fighting it out for who would finish at the bottom of CO. Of course, that leaves out other squads. I’m a C level in Production that recently switched to Carry Optics. Since I hadn’t seen him before, I assume he’s new to USPSA. 

 

It’s common for some of the guys who’ve been squadding together to have friendly banter and competition among themselves. But this was a bit weird. After each stage, he went and asked what my Hit Factor was. It’s human nature to compare yourself to others in your squad. But no sooner than I had seen my score, he would walk up and ask to see it. 

 

In any event, he was a nice guy and I talked with him a bit. Hopefully, he’ll continue to come out. Has anyone else ever encountered someone “competing” like that within a squad. 

 

When he asks, just say you didn't see the HF. Easy....Or mess with him and add or subtract a little from it. lol. I did that to a buddy at a IDPA match, he was in a different squad so me and a couple other friend kept feeding him info about how I was crushing everything even though I shot like s#!t all day. Probably mind F'd him good.....Good times. lol

 

But yeah, some guys get really hung up on scores. They probably think it helps them, but really what can they do with the information? Push on the next stage to catch up? Probably not going to work out. Most of the time I legit don't know my score on a stage if you ask me.

 

[RJH]

A lot of times we will check the scores at the end of each stage and then talk s#!t to each other.  It is easy to do with practiscore, and fun LOL.  

[Stafford]

Just to be clear, he wasn’t asking me. He would go to whoever was running the tablet and ask for my score? I agree it’s all fun, but I didn’t know the guy. It seemed strange, but it was probably motivating him to try and beat me.

 

I was watching the A CO shooter in our squad, and trying to pick up tips from what he was doing. 

[nasty618]

It's a bit tacky if you dont know the guy and he is asking about your scores from the RO directly.  If you are friends or shooting buddies, then the point is moot - it's perfectly OK. 

 

Cant speak for the highest level competitors, but at high levels of competition this happens to some degree.  A person will scan the score sheet to see where he stacks up.  If only as a confidence booster like "i won the stage" or "i am well in the game, getting most of the match points".  Of course, if you didnt do too well - the key is to let go and focus on the next stage, but if you did OK - going into the next stage with a boosted confidence is pretty good.  As it was said earlier, it probably doesnt help to check your scores after each stage and most people wont know how to use that info anyway... Personally, I dont check it at majors or at locals, not on a stage by stage basis.  I prefer to just focus on the things in front of me. 

 

Having said that, it's the competitive spirit that drives us to get better at things.  The guy is clearly competitive and wants to win (so i dont know what he is still doing in C class, but that's irrelevant).   But instead of feeling negative about this, see if you can use this to your advantage.  You said you watched the A class guy's performing on stages, trying to pick up new things and techniques to help you get better?  Maybe your dude loves the game and is invested. Maybe he trains regularly and you could join him for a training session.  Maybe he has some good info to share, or has some good online resources to recommend.   One doesnt have to be a GM to know how to train properly. 

 

 

[euxx]

At club-level matches I'm like that too. I like to know the current standings. Eric G. advanced courses also have a section about score math - like calculating how many stage points you gain or loose by comparing times and hits. Eric can do it in his head and fast. I can't, so I built most of it into PS Competitor app - it shows your target times (either comparing to the current leader or to stage HHFs for classifiers) and time-cost of lost hits (C, D, M, NS and Ps all basically add time to your run) and when available you can sync score updates right into PS Competitor app trough the club wifi even if results aren't posted to PractiScore web site. And even if you can't sync current scores, you can manually enter your and your buddy scores into the app to compare during match.

[Nathanb]

Amongst friends I see it all the time. 

[Intheshaw1]

Yeah, I shoot with mostly the same group of guys and we all talk crap during our weekly league shoots but we know each other. It's a little weird that the guy was directly asking the RO but I wouldn't get too worked up about it but I look at my personal performance at the end of the day and try not to care about others performance.

[rowdyb]

Totally normal 

[RJH]

Also, I have looked to see what another shooter shot, whether i new them or not.  If their run looked close to mine and we are in the same division,  i might be curious as to who won that stage.  I wouldn't overthink it, it is not private information. 

 

 

[edison]

I don't mind it.

'cause the highest score of the game is the winner. 

If you don't know where you stand, then you're shooting blind; which is fine if you're just participating.

 

I don't want to play basketball for an hour & the score isn't revealed 'til the end.

[Nik Habicht]

Some of the best times I ever had was when I was shooting matches with two other C shooters in Production, and later with two other B shooters  in Production (4 friends total, the C shooters drifted away, the B shooters drifted in).  We'd razz each other and compare scores on a regular basis - we weren't competitive for a division win, but we could compete for class wins, and for bragging rights among ourselves - friendships were forged there....

[Batmo]

A Buddy.....a Master shooter who is also my gunsmith and the person who got me started in this game swears on the rare occasion when I've won a stage or a match that we are no longer friends and he's not talking to me anymore.  Doesn't happen very often and both shooting Super Senior our memories are short anyway.

 

 

[RaylanGivens]

On 11/6/2020 at 9:56 AM, euxx said:

At club-level matches I'm like that too. I like to know the current standings. Eric G. advanced courses also have a section about score math - like calculating how many stage points you gain or loose by comparing times and hits. Eric can do it in his head and fast. I can't, so I built most of it into PS Competitor app - it shows your target times (either comparing to the current leader or to stage HHFs for classifiers) and time-cost of lost hits (C, D, M, NS and Ps all basically add time to your run) and when available you can sync score updates right into PS Competitor app trough the club wifi even if results aren't posted to PractiScore web site. And even if you can't sync current scores, you can manually enter your and your buddy scores into the app to compare during match.

 

Are you talking about the two boxes I have highlighted in the attached Practiscore Compeitor screen print?

 

The top (red) box does the math to show what my hit factor would have been if I had shot all alphas on the course.

 

The next (purple) box seems to use Eric's formula that you are talking about...   So the time penalty for a Charlie on this stage is 0.33 and the penalty for a delta is 0.66...  So if I make up a Charlie with an Alpha and a 0.15 split, it's worthwhile on this stage?  What is the significance of the "Final 16.62" time?  I realize that it is my hit factor plus the penalty times, but I'm not sure what that tells me...  How it helps me?

 

[euxx]

15 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

Are you talking about the two boxes I have highlighted in the attached Practiscore Compeitor screen print?

The top (red) box does the math to show what my hit factor would have been if I had shot all alphas on the course.

 

Yes

 

Quote

The next (purple) box seems to use Eric's formula that you are talking about...   So the time penalty for a Charlie on this stage is 0.33 and the penalty for a delta is 0.66...  So if I make up a Charlie with an Alpha and a 0.15 split, it's worthwhile on this stage?  What is the significance of the "Final 16.62" time?  I realize that it is my hit factor plus the penalty times, but I'm not sure what that tells me...  How it helps me?

 

This isn't really Eric's formula, but it gives some basic idea what mistakes cost.

 

You've got it right in regards to makeup times. It get more useful for D and M (especially on steel). If you're taking longer than 2.49 sec to hit that steel, it's better to leave it standing, and other way around - for a far steel you may want to take a couple shoots in under 0.7-1 sec and leave it, or you making your results worse.

 

The final time there is to give a rough idea how much "time" you've added to your run by shooting Cs, Ds, etc. There is also a "Time Only" option that uses this math for the results ranking and also shows times on the bar chart.

Also, when you haven't shot stage yet (in the middle of the match) - the same data as in the "purple" box is calculated against the best current scores and shown for the incomplete stages, so you have that cost of Cs, Ds and Ms before you've shot (relative to the current best results).
 

Edited November 9, 2020 by euxx

[nasty618]

Knowing the HF for the stage can help drive the stage strategy.  How important are the As? Do I make up a charlie? Do I make up a delta? Do I leave NPMs or do I try to get the points? How big are my aiming zones on open targets? These are some of the things one can plan for if one is able to estimate his HF for the stage.  Personally I find this to be one of the biggest and most useful features of the Competitor app.  With a little bit of practice one can get pretty good at this kind of math on the fly.  Most people don't like doing math (I know I don't) and prefer to just shoot.  I don't know how many really good and high level shooters actually use it in their stage planning, but they probably should - it can give then an edge over the rest of the field.

[RaylanGivens]

On 11/9/2020 at 6:04 PM, euxx said:

The final time there is to give a rough idea how much "time" you've added to your run by shooting Cs, Ds, etc. There is also a "Time Only" option that uses this math for the results ranking and also shows times on the bar chart.

Also, when you haven't shot stage yet (in the middle of the match) - the same data as in the "purple" box is calculated against the best current scores and shown for the incomplete stages, so you have that cost of Cs, Ds and Ms before you've shot (relative to the current best results).

 

Good tips, Thanks Eugene!