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Make ready / Unload and show clear habbits (logic vs mimicking)


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Since this isn't an actual shooting technique I didn't know where else to post. Please move if not in the right place.

 

At local, state, nationals, and on youtube for well known shooters, I see a lot of shooters of all classifications and divisions doing this for a reason unknown to me:

When finishing the last shot of the stage, they immediately strip the mag and rack out the last round with a speed and intensity as if they we're being timed/judged. I understand on some stages the final shooting position may be in a spot where you can only see 1 or 2 targets, or you know your shots are good and there no point in standing around scanning for hits. However, in many circumstances I've seen people spot a miss or no-shoot/miss with an empty gun in hand. Had they just taken a moment to look around they could have gotten off a make-up in a perfectly acceptable time. Now i'm not saying everyone needs to become a badass navy seal operator and make a dramatic search and asses at the end of each string, but I just don't see a reason to frantically unload-show clear within half a second of the last shot breaking.

 

Does anyone else notice this? Why are people doing this?

My best guess is that like most people's song and dance they do at make ready, they saw a GM/fast shooter do a "thing" so they are mimicking without thinking why.

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For me as long as I know I got everything I wanted I hurry it up because it's a 50/50 chance I'm going to get a good RO. Meaning not one that's practically going to shove the timer up my guns ass to try to pick up the hammer drop and add time. 

 

How to handle a timer is something that needs to be thoroughly taught at the RO class. 

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24 minutes ago, louu said:

For me as long as I know I got everything I wanted I hurry it up because it's a 50/50 chance I'm going to get a good RO. Meaning not one that's practically going to shove the timer up my guns ass to try to pick up the hammer drop and add time. 

 

How to handle a timer is something that needs to be thoroughly taught at the RO class. 

This is the most ridiculous reason to hurry ULSC I have ever heard. 

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1 minute ago, TrackCage said:

This is the most ridiculous reason to hurry ULSC I have ever heard. 

Yeah well when it's actually happened to me 4 times and once causing a reshoot ya gotta do what ya gotta do 

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15 hours ago, NoSteel said:

Unload, SHOW Clear......

A lot of them certainly put on a show, that's for sure. It's as if they think the timer won't stop until they holster

 

 

Edited by Wiseguy724
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On 10/28/2020 at 10:57 AM, Sarge said:

This whole thread cracks me up. And it’s just getting started!😂


Just because you’ve seen it go the same way 109 times does not mean you know how thread #110 will turn out...

 

;) 
 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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hmm. i've been working big matches for 9 years now, and while some people take a little longer than others to ULSC, I can't think of very many people at all that I've seen do it quick enough for me to notice anything unusual. And if I did, I can't imagine why I would care. 

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Basically the answer is if your looking at your targets to see the hits after dismounting the gun you probably have more problems then finding a mike and not having a loaded gun ready to shoot it with. Most shooters that have been at this game a while fall into one of two groups, group 1 know s their hits generally suck and have learned to live with it, group 2 knows or has a pretty good idea where their hits are and have already fired any extra shots they thought they needed. Both groups feel no need to scan for hits before ULSC. as an RO it is fun to watch group 2 shooters UNSC then make an immediate B-line to some target in the middle of the stage that they were not sure of their hits on but didn't fire make ups on.  

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A hurried ULSC keeps me from making a stupid mistake and trying to for that make up I just noticed 5-10 seconds after I was done shooting, making my HF lower than it would have been had I left the mike or delta.

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Well, I'll only speak for myself.  If I KNOW I'm done shooting I remove the mag, stow it and hold the slide open for the RO to inspect.  I realize it is MY responsibility to make sure the gun is clear, but I do this as a courtesy to the RO ( I'm one of them).   As an RO I do NOT appreciate those who unload and show clear and holster before I get If you.... are out of my mouth.  I realize it is the shooters responsibility to make sue the gun is clear, but I want to see also.  MDs demand this.

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1 hour ago, zzt said:

[...]  If I KNOW I'm done shooting I remove the mag, stow it and hold the slide open for the RO to inspect.  I realize it is MY responsibility to make sure the gun is clear, but I do this as a courtesy to the RO ( I'm one of them).  [...]

 

Sorry ... This is NOT a courtesy.  It is REQUIRED by the rules.

 

8.3.6    “If You Are Finished, Unload and Show Clear” or “Unload and Show Clear” – If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his firearm and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed downrange, magazine removed, slide/bolt locked or held open, and chamber empty.  Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder swung out and empty.

 

There are a number of shooters who either don't know this, don't care, or are just to ornery to comply.  (Fortunately, they're in the minority.)

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9 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Sorry ... This is NOT a courtesy.  It is REQUIRED by the rules.

 

8.3.6    “If You Are Finished, Unload and Show Clear” or “Unload and Show Clear” – If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his firearm and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed downrange, magazine removed, slide/bolt locked or held open, and chamber empty.  Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder swung out and empty.

 

There are a number of shooters who either don't know this, don't care, or are just to ornery to comply.  (Fortunately, they're in the minority.)

 

Exactly what I do.  Either you read something into it that I didn't mean, or I was not clear.

 

Added later.  Now that I reread what I wrote I think it a poor choice of words.

Edited by zzt
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1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

Added later.  Now that I reread what I wrote I think it a poor choice of words.

 

Apologies for appearing gruff.  All I had to go on was what you wrote.

 

There are, however, a few shooters who actually believe pretty much what you originally posted.

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On 10/31/2020 at 6:13 AM, Schutzenmeister said:

Apologies for appearing gruff.  All I had to go on was what you wrote.

 

There are, however, a few shooters who actually believe pretty much what you originally posted.

 

They are the ones I like to ask to show clear and then we go through the whole process again, at my s l o w   p    a     c     e  🙂

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I'm gonna unload at about the same pace I would at a static firing line. 

 

I'll make sure I see an empty chamber, drop the hammer, and put the gun in the holster deliberately. If I have a mag out of the gun before I realize I didnt engage a target, the time spent getting the gun ready again will outweigh the penalties. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/28/2020 at 10:27 AM, louu said:

For me as long as I know I got everything I wanted I hurry it up because it's a 50/50 chance I'm going to get a good RO. Meaning not one that's practically going to shove the timer up my guns ass to try to pick up the hammer drop and add time. 

 

How to handle a timer is something that needs to be thoroughly taught at the RO class. 

Ummm actually if you wait for the RO to walk you through the ULSC process, AND show them the empty chamber as requested.  The hammer fall won't be an issue.  Good RO's hold the timer so the Scoring RO can see it as they watch the competitor ULSC.  We do this to avoid the occasional bump, round fired in the next bay or some other inadvertent recording.

Now if you go through all of this and they hold the timer close to your firearm as they say Hammer Down, you need to report it to the RM and if the RO is certified, report it to DNROI.

Handling of the Timer is taught at USPSA RO classes and it is to a Club/Gun Ranges benefit to host an RO Seminar every few years.  It makes for better/safer matches and actually helps competitors learn the rules and up their game.

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On 11/2/2020 at 1:11 PM, broadside72 said:

 

They are the ones I like to ask to show clear and then we go through the whole process again, at my s l o w   p    a     c     e  🙂

Exactly, the Make Ready AND the ULSC processes are NOT speed events.

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