Magnet on belt in Production

[bishop414]

 

7 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

As long as it's behind the point of the hip (correct gear placement for Prod/CO), sure, but why risk it?

 

https://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/uspsa/magnets042519.pdf

So a magnet falls into "allied equipment"? Seems a stretch, especially if it's not used to hold a magazine.

 

[mreed911]

2 minutes ago, bishop414 said:

 

So a magnet falls into "allied equipment"? Seems a stretch, especially if it's not used to hold a magazine.

 

Yes.

[terrydoc]

If it's not allied equipment what is it?

[vluc]

5 hours ago, terrydoc said:

If it's not allied equipment what is it?

An issue that needs to be resolved (by declaring no magnet period in those divisions) by DRNOI.  

 

This is one more item that's a possible pissing contest at a match that the RO/CRO doesn't need to deal with when it can be addressed simply and succinctly by saying no.  

Edited November 12, 2020 by vluc

[DirkD]

1 hour ago, vluc said:

An issue that needs to be resolved (by declaring no magnet period in those divisions) by DRNOI.  

 

This is one more item that's a possible pissing contest at a match that the RO/CRO doesn't need to deal with when it can be addressed simply and succinctly by saying no.  

This has been clarified by DNROI, magnet forward of your hip bone, you are in Open,  use the magnet during the COF, you are in Open.

Edited November 12, 2020 by DirkD

[vluc]

I know he has, I disagree with his position, why even let it get that far?  Shooters still don't know where the hell their hipbones are.  Lost count over the years at local, level 2 and 3 matches I've been a CRO at where I have to correct it as they just came from a stage where it wasn't corrected (or they moved it).   Sigh.... 

[terrydoc]

17 hours ago, terrydoc said:

If it's not allied equipment what is it?

My point is it is used to place something onto as part of your equipment is it not? So absolutely it falls into the category of allied equipment. 

[echotango]

Can you really not live without a magnet? Just buy another mag pouch. Not worth it. 

[DirkD]

On 11/13/2020 at 8:56 AM, echotango said:

Can you really not live without a magnet? Just buy another mag pouch. Not worth it. 

why does it matter to you what another shooter has on their belt?

[Thomas H]

15 minutes ago, DirkD said:

why does it matter to you what another shooter has on their belt?

From my standpoint, it doesn't.

 

What does matter is listening to someone else at a match complaining when they get bumped to Open for not following the rules, and then continuing to complain about it, and having to deal with that from a match official standpoint.

 

It makes me, at least, not want to deal with anyone else complaining about it.  Pretty much everything in this thread has been said before, including the complaining and the lack of understanding of the rule.  It is a lot easier to just tell someone "Hey, in that division, the easiest thing to do is buy another mag pouch and not have a magnet, because that way there is NO possibility of making a mistake and getting bumped to Open for your magnet" than it is to go through yet another explanation of what the rule is, that the rule isn't going to change anytime soon, and that the person's misunderstanding of the application of the rule will probably get them in trouble at some point in time.

 

People CAN wear magnets in Production.  That's legal, as long as you follow the rules.  It isn't a good idea, though---quite the contrary, it is a dumb idea with no particular upside.

[mniels]

Wow, I am really happy that I brought all this up to begin with.  

[DirkD]

12 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

From my standpoint, it doesn't.

 

What does matter is listening to someone else at a match complaining when they get bumped to Open for not following the rules, and then continuing to complain about it, and having to deal with that from a match official standpoint.

 

It makes me, at least, not want to deal with anyone else complaining about it.  Pretty much everything in this thread has been said before, including the complaining and the lack of understanding of the rule.  It is a lot easier to just tell someone "Hey, in that division, the easiest thing to do is buy another mag pouch and not have a magnet, because that way there is NO possibility of making a mistake and getting bumped to Open for your magnet" than it is to go through yet another explanation of what the rule is, that the rule isn't going to change anytime soon, and that the person's misunderstanding of the application of the rule will probably get them in trouble at some point in time.

 

People CAN wear magnets in Production.  That's legal, as long as you follow the rules.  It isn't a good idea, though---quite the contrary, it is a dumb idea with no particular upside.

If a shooter gets bumped to open for having the wrong gear or using a magnet, it is on them.

I agree that it is easier to ditch it for most shooters, but I have one and i use it, but not during the COF.

I walk up with my mags either properly stowed in pouches on my belt or my start mag in my hand, at the end of the stage after ULSC, I put the mag in my pocket, I make sure it isn't used during the COF.

After range is clear, I put mags dropped on the ground on my magnet and then go clean and load them, so it has a purpose for me and if I am dumb enough to use a magnet during the COF, I deserve to go to Open.

I really don't see what the problem is grabbing a mag off a magnet at make ready and slapping a mag on a magnet after ulsc, but the rules say it is a bump to open, so i don't do it, allowing a magnet use during a case like that doesn't change anything except it is against the rules in production, carry optics and ss

[mreed911]

1 hour ago, DirkD said:

why does it matter to you what another shooter has on their belt?

 

It only matters to me in terms of uniform enforcement of the rules.

[Gary Stevens]

A wise man once told me you'll seldom go wrong by saying no.

[echotango]

4 hours ago, DirkD said:

why does it matter to you what another shooter has on their belt?

I could not care less. But two pages of using a magnet for a division that does not allow it just seems pointless.if a magnet is that important, shoot limited or open.

Edited November 23, 2020 by echotango

[DirkD]

18 minutes ago, echotango said:

I could not care less. But two pages of using a magnet for a division that does not allow it just seems pointless.if a magnet is that important, shoot limited or open.

I don't get why it matters so much to you what other people do.

You say it doesn't matter but you seem to be real concerned about what someone else is doing or what they buy.

I really don't care what another shooter does as long as they don't put me in or anyone in danger, the match staff can deal with it, not my concern.

[mniels]

You know what everyone?  I got the information I wanted out of this thread a long while ago.  I made it pretty clear this was a matter of convenience, not trying to complain about a rule.  I think we can let the matter rest before it devolves into whatever animosity this is heading towards.  Believe me, at this point I would delete the thread if I could.

[echotango]

1 hour ago, DirkD said:

I don't get why it matters so much to you what other people do.

You say it doesn't matter but you seem to be real concerned about what someone else is doing or what they buy.

I really don't care what another shooter does as long as they don't put me in or anyone in danger, the match staff can deal with it, not my concern.

Not concerned at all. 

[mreed911]

1 hour ago, DirkD said:

I really don't care what another shooter does as long as they don't put me in or anyone in danger, the match staff can deal with it, not my concern.

 

Many of the commenters here ARE match staff.

[DirkD]

14 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

Many of the commenters here ARE match staff.

if match staff doesn't like a magnet on someones belt that is their problem, if it is used during the cof or in the wrong position, then call the rm and put them in open.

uspsa has a rulebook why not just follow the rules instead of trying to impose what you think it should be.

[Thomas H]

58 minutes ago, DirkD said:

if match staff doesn't like a magnet on someones belt that is their problem, if it is used during the cof or in the wrong position, then call the rm and put them in open.

uspsa has a rulebook why not just follow the rules instead of trying to impose what you think it should be.

 

That's rather what I said earlier---the problem isn't with people wearing magnets (whether they are a good idea of not), it is that particularly competitor whining and complaining when they do something against the rules that gets them bumped to open.

 

Match staff is tired of that.    Which is rather why they are telling people to just not do it.  The rules are clear---you CAN do it, in specific and very limited ways.  No one is arguing against that.  They ARE saying, however, considering the number of people who get kicked to Open because they can't follow those limiting rule, that it is just easier to not wear a magnet in divisions where you can use the magnet.

 

You said: 
"I don't get why it matters so much to you what other people do.
You say it doesn't matter but you seem to be real concerned about what someone else is doing or what they buy."

And as people have pointed out, that isn't what is going on here.  You also said:

 

"I really don't care what another shooter does as long as they don't put me in or anyone in danger, the match staff can deal with it, not my concern."

 

As match staff, apparently it IS our concern, so why are you telling us that we shouldn't be concerned about what someone else is doing? 

 

There is a big difference between "can do this" and and "it is a good idea to do this."  Wearing magnets, and the people who wear them who don't understand how the rules work regarding them in divisions in which you can't use them during the course of fire, belong to the categories of "can do this" and "doing it is a bad idea" at the same time. 

 

Unsurprisingly, match staff folks are tired of people yelling at them because the competitor doesn't understand the rules and doesn't like being bumped to Open.

 

 

[mreed911]

1 hour ago, DirkD said:

uspsa has a rulebook why not just follow the rules instead of trying to impose what you think it should be.

 

I think we agree on this.  You're welcome to have a magnet.  You're also welcome to use it on the COF, which means you've decided to shoot Open.  Easy-peasy.

[ChuckS]

17 hours ago, mniels said:

You know what everyone?  I got the information I wanted out of this thread a long while ago.  I made it pretty clear this was a matter of convenience, not trying to complain about a rule.  I think we can let the matter rest before it devolves into whatever animosity this is heading towards.  Believe me, at this point I would delete the thread if I could.

And this thread is an excellent example of why one should search for an answer before posting!  

[terrydoc]

Maybe the OP can close the thread for comments?

[mniels]

3 minutes ago, terrydoc said:

Maybe the OP can close the thread for comments?

I would love to but I can't see where to do it.....