Loading an oddball 240 gr bullet in 44

[Ceapea]

I’ve got some OLD 44 caliber half jacket bullets that are in a Hornady box. I’ve been told that they most likely are Speer bullets...that at some time in the distant past, Hornady and Speer were together, or at least did some business together. I was told (all this info came from forum questions/answers many years ago and a call to Hornady!) that they were short lived and discontinued because the copper (half) jacket was seated below the case mouth and firing the round sometimes stripped the jacket off the bullet...the crimp would dislodge the jacket...sometimes. I don’t know. 

But that just sets the stage for my real question. Can it be assumed that a 44 spl round, loaded to the same COAL as a 44 magnum, using the same bullet, would have (nearly) the same resulting internal case volume in both cases? I found that these bullets, if loaded to 1.610” in a 44 spl case, leaves the jacket just outside of the case mouth...maybe .030”
I want to load it to the lightest 44 magnum in my books, in spl cases. Actually, just a bit lower, even. The manuals list 18.3 and 18.4 gr of 2400 in magnum cases. I am looking at 18.0 gr 2400 in the spl case, loaded to the magnum coal.
Am I wrong in saying that the resulting case volume would be nearly identical? The brass is the same, other than the length, no? Again, I only want to do this to use up 200 otherwise (supposedly) unusable bullets. 
Thanks.

[RJH]

I am thinking that you will be fine.  Of course assuming you are firing them out of a 44 mag handgun.  Also a quick google search showed some loads for the 44 special and 2400, it might not be a bad idea to look over some of those as well, and work with both sets of data.  Anytime you do something like this with no data, you have to do some extrapolating and understand that there can be risk involved.  That said i have made loads many times when no data available by comparing guns with like capacities and pressures and have done so with no issues, so i guess i like to extrapolate LOL.  Good luck

[Ceapea]

28 minutes ago, RJH said:

I am thinking that you will be fine.  Of course assuming you are firing them out of a 44 mag handgun.  Also a quick google search showed some loads for the 44 special and 2400, it might not be a bad idea to look over some of those as well, and work with both sets of data.  Anytime you do something like this with no data, you have to do some extrapolating and understand that there can be risk involved.  That said i have made loads many times when no data available by comparing guns with like capacities and pressures and have done so with no issues, so i guess i like to extrapolate LOL.  Good luck

Thanks.

 I like to extrapolate too. I’ve actually done a very similar thing with 38 spl brass and light 357 loads using a long seated (to 357 mag coal) bullets. That was with 2400 too. 
But, 11 gr of 2400 in a 38 spl, seems more tame than 18 gr in a 44 spl case...

Though I have only a few post here, I have been a lurker, and a loaded for over 10 years. So far, I’ve loaded just under 150k rd with just two issues. One was a primer that fell out of a primer pocket. The other was minor...forgot what it was. This load is for a Henry single shot rifle. Supposedly, it and the 45-70 share the same heavy profile barrel and action.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Ceapea

[Guy Neill]

As I recall, these bullets don't agree with light loads.  That is where most had problems separating the jacket and core.

 

Proceed with due caution, checking the bore after each shot until you are confident in the loads.

 

Most commonly the separation occurred in the forcing cone.

 

 

[Ceapea]

I’ve posted this question on a few different sites. For the most part, it is said that these bullets do not separate from the jackets and, they need a stout load to send them down range efficiently. So, I will just load them in 44 mag brass, with a good middle weight charge. It was a thought is all. I’ve had great success loading 38 spl cases as mentioned above. 

[Intel6]

Yes these were "half jacket" bullets made by Speer. I have shot lots of these back when they still made them and still have some sitting on the shelf. These are basically jacketed bullets and should be loaded as such. Think of it as a jacketed bullet where the jacket doesn't go up above the mouth of the case when loaded.  Other than that it has the jacket on the bearing surface of the bullet where it is important.  When I shot these they performed great and I have never heard of any issues with any jacket separation with these types of bullets?  From what I saw they were discontinued by Speer when they started to "TMJ" or "Totally Metal Jacket" ( i.e. plated bullets)  their bullets and decided to retire the half jacketed stuff. 

[Ben53]

I miss those half-jacket bullets.  I used to shoot a lot of them back in the day as they were cheap and did what I needed them to do.  They had them in .38 and .44 at least.  I wanted to add that 2400 doesn't usually burn well at light charges; you might want to go with a faster powder for light loads.  And as you mentioned, I suggest crimping on the forward part of the jacket, but not over the front if it.  Have fun!

[Farmer]

They can separate with low loading’s and they are crimped just over the jacket. Just have to keep them above the min book load. 

[Postal Bob]

Those were my favorite bullets when I first started reloading 35 years ago. They were Speer Soft Point bullets. And the current Speer reloading book at the time, warned about jacket seperation in light loads. I would load them at full power, 24 gr W296. And they were seated with the top of the case mouth crimped over the top edge of the jacket. This left about 1/8" of lead showing under the top edge of the lead shoulder.

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Postal Bob

[Ceapea]

On 10/24/2020 at 8:32 PM, Postal Bob said:

Those were my favorite bullets when I first started reloading 35 years ago. They were Speer Soft Point bullets. And the current Speer reloading book at the time, warned about jacket seperation in light loads. I would load them at full power, 24 gr W296. And they were seated with the top of the case mouth crimped over the top edge of the jacket. This left about 1/8" of lead showing under the top edge of the lead shoulder.

 

 

 

Those are a bit different than mine. I believe that mine are Hornady bullets. They are in a Hornady box. Yours look like 3/4 jacket bullets.

[Postal Bob]

Yeah, definitely a shorter jacket. More than just a gas check though. But they still have the crimping groove just below the shoulder.

[Postal Bob]

These are the Speer soft point bullets, with the higher jacket.