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Single Stack Division - Slide Question


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Here it is.  D5 Special Conditions

 

Frames must be metal. Modular frames in the 1911 style, which use traditional single stack 1911 magazines, are allowed. No wide body magazines, including those adapted to feed in a single column, may be used.

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6 minutes ago, jwhittin said:

Here it is.  D5 Special Conditions

 

Frames must be metal. Modular frames in the 1911 style, which use traditional single stack 1911 magazines, are allowed. No wide body magazines, including those adapted to feed in a single column, may be used.

if you change the grip to take single stack magazines, now your 2011 is a 1911?

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I interpret "Modular frames in the 1911 style, which use traditional single stack 1911 magazines" would rule out a widebody grip, period. 

 

If you look at the specs for the Staccato C, the grip is of Single Stack design.   

Edited by jwhittin
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1 minute ago, jwhittin said:

I interpret "Modular frames in the 1911 style" would rule out a widebody grip, period.   If you look at the specs for the Staccato C, the grip is of Single Stack design.   

the staccato is a modular framed 2011, the grip is made to accept 1911 mags.

here is a single stack grip for a 2011

https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/blog/2020/09/29/cwa-single-stack-2011-grip/

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After re-reading the rules, a 2011 frame is of modular "1911 style" and is allowed.  The restrictions are on the magazines not the grip. So it looks like any grip that will accept a 1911 magazine that you can attach to a 2011 frame is allowed.   

 

Is that your understanding? 

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After HQ allowed the Staccato (which as you said is a modular frame, 2011, 'single stack', with strikingly similar dimensions to a 2011 double stack) they got a bunch of people asking if they could us a double stack 2011 with a single stack mag (either via single stack grip, or inserts allowing only a single stack to fit) and HQ came out with a reply that saying you can't convert 2011 wide bodies into single stacks in any way/shape/form.... even though EVERYTHING that people were doing mirrored EXACTLY what the Staccato is.

 

Doesn't matter, USPSA got paid, and then STI abandoned competition shooting as a whole so this ones pretty much dead except for a few people that guy those specific, overpriced guns. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by mikeg1005
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40 minutes ago, jwhittin said:

After re-reading the rules, a 2011 frame is of modular "1911 style" and is allowed.  The restrictions are on the magazines not the grip. So it looks like any grip that will accept a 1911 magazine that you can attach to a 2011 frame is allowed.   

 

Is that your understanding? 

 

This is specifically prohibited.... I know several people who have tired every possible angle and you cannot, per DNROI shoot any 2011 wide body in single stack.  

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27 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

This is specifically prohibited.... I know several people who have tired every possible angle and you cannot, per DNROI shoot any 2011 wide body in single stack.  

what is the difference between taking a 2011 and putting a single stack grip on it and using a staccato 2011 that takes a single stack mags in single stack?

 

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1 hour ago, DirkD said:

what is the difference between taking a 2011 and putting a single stack grip on it and using a staccato 2011 that takes a single stack mags in single stack?

 

 

Nothing other than USPSA doesn't want you to do the first one and issued a statement saying so.  

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Just now, mikeg1005 said:

 

Nothing other than USPSA doesn't want you to do the first one and issued a statement saying so.  

I would be willing to slap a hundred dollar bill down on it at Single Stack Nationals.

Their statement doesn't mean much, the rule book does.

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Very confusing.

 

So what is an example of a " Modular frames in the 1911 style" ?   

 

All the modular frames I can think of are called "2011 frames" even though that has nothing to do with the size of the feeding device.  

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6 minutes ago, DirkD said:

I would be willing to slap a hundred dollar bill down on it at Single Stack Nationals.

Their statement doesn't mean much, the rule book does.

 

 

Troy made the ruling and he'll be the RM.

 

 

Edited by mikeg1005
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Its been a while but as I recall it... the following options were presented. 

 

A 2011 (STI Eagle basically) that complied with all the SS rules, weight, fit in the box, etc. 

-Grip made specifically to take traditional 1911 mags.

-Grip inserts that would covert a regular plastic/aluminum 2011 grip into one that fits 1911 mags.

-Using 'single stack' wide body mags (they exist, 10rder from STI)

 

All were deemed not allowed.  A statement was issued (idk where trying to find it) detailing this rule change that I'm (assuming) will be put into the rulebook. 

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7 minutes ago, jwhittin said:

March 2020 V2 is the latest.

 

Found it... Meeting minutes from Feb 14th 2020 USPSA meeting has this in it. 

 

Discussion regarding definition of Single Stack and definition of Single Stack frame and magazine. Clarification to be made to existing rules by DNROI with support from the Board of Directors. In summary, while modular frames are, and have been, legal in Single Stack Division, only those in the 1911 style, using traditional single stack 1911 magazines are allowed. No wide body magazines, including those adapted to feed in a single column, may be used.

 

It doesn't address the inserts mentioned above but there is other things out that that state this... trying to find them LOL. 

 

Edited by mikeg1005
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Correct. That language is in the March 2020 V2 rule book.  

 

Again I ask, what is an example of a " Modular frames in the 1911 style"  if a so called "2011 frame" is not allowed.   We are talking about the frame, not the grip.

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1 minute ago, jwhittin said:

Correct. That language is in the March 2020 V2 rule book.  

 

Again I ask, what is an example of a " Modular frames in the 1911 style"  if a so called "2011 frame" is not allowed.   We are talking about the frame, not the grip.

 

The Staccato 1911 (R, whatever model).  

 

Yes it says 2011, yes its dimensionally almost the same as a wide body 2011... but this one is allowed and a 2011 (wide body) isn't.  

 

 

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For the record... I want to be able to have people shoot 2011s with single stack mags in single stack... as allowing the Staccato R, in my opinion sets the precedence that this would be allowed since 'modular frame 1911s' are allowed, Staccato R says 2011 on it, and is dimensionally almost the same as say an STI Eagle.  

 

HQ... disagreed with a bunch of trying to figure out how to do this earlier this year. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, mikeg1005 said:

For the record... I want to be able to have people shoot 2011s with single stack mags in single stack... as allowing the Staccato R, in my opinion sets the precedence that this would be allowed since 'modular frame 1911s' are allowed, Staccato R says 2011 on it, and is dimensionally almost the same as say an STI Eagle.  

 

HQ... disagreed with a bunch of trying to figure out how to do this earlier this year. 

 

 

would this be legal on a 2011 frame for single stack?

https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/CW-Accessories-WIDE-BODY-SINGLE-STACK-GRIP-P5999.aspx

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2 minutes ago, DirkD said:

 

Can you email Troy and ask?  I recall it being stated this is not legal but I cannot find the documentation.  

 

It would be interesting to see what the reply is since, in reality... an 43oz bushing barrel 2011 with that grip would be no different than the STI Staccato R (or w/e).

 

 

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Just now, mikeg1005 said:

 

Can you email Troy and ask?  I recall it being stated this is not legal but I cannot find the documentation.  

 

It would be interesting to see what the reply is since, in reality... an 43oz bushing barrel 2011 with that grip would be no different than the STI Staccato R (or w/e).

 

 

since they allowed a staccato 2011 with a single stack grip into single stack, i don't see how they could say this would not be a legal single stack and would be willing to slap a benji down and arbitrate it at single stack nationals.

Troy is the RM but he would not be on the arbitration committee.
 

 

21 hours ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

 

Troy made the ruling and he'll be the RM.

 

 

I looked for a ruling on it and haven't seen anything on it.

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