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S&W 929 new to me


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4 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

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Well, still dealing with this monster. Seems like the lowest I can go with the trigger pull is 7.5lb, any lighter, failures to fire. I am using federal spp, boy are they soft. Still issues if I get below 7.5lb. I have tried uniforming primer pockets to ensure I am properly seating primers, really no difference?

Has anyone ever come across the hammer not fully striking the firing pin? I'm grasping for straws. If I use a punch and depress the firing pin from the hammer side, ensuring not to push it below the stop, it looks like the firing pin protrudes more than if I drop the hammer and hold it in the fire position. Also, I'm getting marring on the lower left of the hammer where it strikes the frame below the firing pin.

Still having issues with bullets walking. Adjusted my crimp to .378, Extreme .356/125gr Winchester brass .011. Yes, I use Hornady One Shot

I haven't read the whole thread but check to see if any endshake in the cylinder. Should be .000-.001.

Check that the hammer isn't hitting the frame on the way down. Usual spot I have to clear is sideplate - frame junction on right side.

Look for drag marks on side of hammer to see if something is rubbing hammer.

Check to make sure hammer isn't hitting top of rebound slide when it falls. ( I have never seen this on a newer gun with MIM parts though).

 

Firing pin travel is normal. The firing pins forward travel is stopped by the primer when firing the gun.

.040 moonclips moves the primer closer and will help but at 7.5 pounds the problem just about has to be internal or endshake.

7.5 pounds will set off federal primer even if they are not seated flush or at least it will with a lightened hammer.

A lightened hammer helps get rid of light strikes also.

 

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Well, I ordered a trigger from TK, maybe it will help. I'm already using an undersize die and have never noticed bullet creep before. I guess the recoil is different between a revolver and 1911? If I have to, I will try .040 clips, am using .037 now. 

Getting a 1911 race gun to run is way easier, LOL, guess it's the game from one type of pistol to another. Oh, the tolerances of my cylinder are fine, but ordered shims anyway. 

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18 minutes ago, tomjerry1 said:

Well, I ordered a trigger from TK, maybe it will help. I'm already using an undersize die and have never noticed bullet creep before. I guess the recoil is different between a revolver and 1911? If I have to, I will try .040 clips, am using .037 now. 

Getting a 1911 race gun to run is way easier, LOL, guess it's the game from one type of pistol to another. Oh, the tolerances of my cylinder are fine, but ordered shims anyway. 

Definitely different, with a semi auto the bullet of the cartridge will impact the magazine on recoil.  There is nothing but open bore in front of a Revolver round.

With a semi auto we always wanted a really tight case with minimal crimp as that kept the bullet from being jammed into the case.  An undersize case actually created a barrier to the base of the bullet to minimize set back.

I've often thought that an undersized case would have the reverse effect on a Revolver round and actually help squirt, for lack of a better word, the bullet forward on recoil.

Maybe try a non-undersized sizing die and see if there's any difference.  

Also remember, especially with Plated and even Jacketed bullets, you can actually cause issues by over crimping.  The lead and copper don't compress to the exact same degree.

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6 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

Well, I ordered a trigger from TK, maybe it will help. I'm already using an undersize die and have never noticed bullet creep before. I guess the recoil is different between a revolver and 1911? If I have to, I will try .040 clips, am using .037 now. 

Getting a 1911 race gun to run is way easier, LOL, guess it's the game from one type of pistol to another. Oh, the tolerances of my cylinder are fine, but ordered shims anyway. 

A different trigger will not make any difference in reliability. 

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Being an semi auto person, I understand bullets not walking under recoil with minimal crimp, and also the possibility in a revolver that is thought may not bet the same. So I wasn't really surprised when I noticed that it was happening. I haven't given any thought to try a different size die, but will give it a chance. My thinking may be lubing the cases before reloading, am going to try not lubing cases next. I definitely don't want to crimp any further, would prefer to relax the crimp.

As far as another trigger, I figure a lighter, faster trigger should help with detonation of the primers. I have done what everyone that I have read or watched has done with this revolver, except sending it off to a specialist. If I could get to 6lb, I'd be happy, others I know are below 6lb, I have been picking their brains for help. Have been giving thought to .040 clips, but question if there is enough room between the base of the round and the frame of the pistol.

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1 hour ago, tomjerry1 said:

Being an semi auto person, I understand bullets not walking under recoil with minimal crimp, and also the possibility in a revolver that is thought may not bet the same. So I wasn't really surprised when I noticed that it was happening. I haven't given any thought to try a different size die, but will give it a chance. My thinking may be lubing the cases before reloading, am going to try not lubing cases next. I definitely don't want to crimp any further, would prefer to relax the crimp.

As far as another trigger, I figure a lighter, faster trigger should help with detonation of the primers. I have done what everyone that I have read or watched has done with this revolver, except sending it off to a specialist. If I could get to 6lb, I'd be happy, others I know are below 6lb, I have been picking their brains for help. Have been giving thought to .040 clips, but question if there is enough room between the base of the round and the frame of the pistol.

Hope you mean lighter HAMMER not trigger. The trigger doesn't have anything to do with light primer strikes.

Most 929's run .040 clips with no work but some do require some work. 

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2 minutes ago, tomjerry1 said:

I stand corrected, Hammer. I have been meaning to try .040 clips, guess I'll get off my butt and order some.

 

I've got some I'm not using, want them? They're too tight in my gun.

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13 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

Being an semi auto person, I understand bullets not walking under recoil with minimal crimp, and also the possibility in a revolver that is thought may not bet the same. So I wasn't really surprised when I noticed that it was happening. I haven't given any thought to try a different size die, but will give it a chance. My thinking may be lubing the cases before reloading, am going to try not lubing cases next. I definitely don't want to crimp any further, would prefer to relax the crimp.

As far as another trigger, I figure a lighter, faster trigger should help with detonation of the primers. I have done what everyone that I have read or watched has done with this revolver, except sending it off to a specialist. If I could get to 6lb, I'd be happy, others I know are below 6lb, I have been picking their brains for help. Have been giving thought to .040 clips, but question if there is enough room between the base of the round and the frame of the pistol.

Now I have no experience with a 9mm Revolver, but...

Even in 38 Short Colt, or 45 ACP, I always noticed bullet pull even in 44 Russians with a crimp groove in lead bullets it would happen took more firings but eventually they would move past the crimp groove, I used a 4" M29 cut for moon clips in the first few years of Revolver Division.

I taper crimp my Coated 160 Bayous to .370", no crimp groove, after the match I de-moon everything and put those rounds into my practice rotation.  Usually if 7 of 8 are fired there may be a .005" pull on that 8th round which hurts nothing.  But being OCD I don't want to put them into Major Match Use as Murphy would show me what would happen if that 8th round became an 8th round fired?  And being the ultimate jokester would snake its way into a No-Shoot!  But then I'm seriously OCD.

I have used them with no issues though and after 2015 just quit worrying about it!

I've actually had more trouble with Plated Bullets than Jacketed, Coated or Lead.

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My experience is with Short Colt, but post-match I de-moon and caliper everything. Like stated above, the worst creep will be .05. They go in the practice bin along with anything that didn’t gauge. Ironically, I ve gotten almost no creep from blue bullets with no groove, and the worse is from Gallants that have a groove. But I taper crimp above the groove anyway so probably that’s not a factor.

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I haven't tried no lube yet, but after what I'm hearing here, I seem to be having similar results. I have a buddy that shoots smurf bullets, .45, he let me try some and I wasn't impressed with them. But coated my be worth a try.

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Does anyone know how deep the hammer nose bushing is supposed to be? Should it be flush with or proud with the inside of the frame where the firing pin protrudes? 

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The old hammer nose style is supposed to be flush and flat, the newer pin in frame style has a slight crown to it. This makes sure that no fired primers stick out and drag on the recoil shield.

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Thank you, just trying to get this 929 reliable(firing every time I pull the trigger). I am still waiting on a TK hammer, maybe it will fall faster and aide in detonation. Also am going to reduce the diameter of the firing pin .002/.003. I was looking into .040 moon clips, but after looking at things and talking with many folks, I am not going that route, I don't think there is enough distance between rounds and drag on the hammer nose bushing/recoil shield. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I have the TK hammer installed, the tapered firing pin, and off to the range. I took my trigger gauge a long, and glad I did. After 96 rounds, 9 no-go's,  I have the trigger pull at 6.5lb, can't get any lower than that and have reliable ignition. Now it's just range time to build up confidence in the pistol firing every time. 

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Every gun is an individual entity. No 2 will be just alike without going through each one and entirely blueprinting it to make every part to the optimum dimension and shape.

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