Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Competitor (not RO) calling a squib


Recommended Posts

Hey all, 

 

This came up at a biggish match over the weekend. We had a competitor squib during a course of fire and stop himself. The rules are really clear about what happens here when the RO is the one who stops the competitor - if the squib is legitimate, the course is scored as shot (5.7.7.1). If the RO was mistaken, the competitor gets a reshoot (5.7.7.2). However, there doesn't seem to be a provision for the competitor calling the squib themselves as 5.7.7 is prefaced with "In the event that a Range Officer terminates a course of fire due to... (squib etc)".

 

If the shooter calls the stop and not the RO, is it an immediate "scored as shot" with no chance of a reshoot? That's the only interpretation I can glean from the rules, but it seems odd to put the onus on them to decide if the possibility of bulging their barrel outweighs likely zeroing a COF. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 76
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

If the shooter stops themselves that's it. There is no reshoot, unless it's for a reason in the rulebook. 

 

It would be hard to write a rule that couldn't be abused when you have a bad stage.

Edited by Kraj
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you stop yourself, you're done. Score it and move on. 

I've had a squib before and I immediately paused because I not only heard it, but felt it too so my response was quicker than the RO. Luckily the RO, after a second of "WTF just happened" rolling around in his head finally yelled STOP once he caught on. 

The rules on it kinda suck just because the RO has to be the one to say stop when you know what happened because you could feel it, but like said above, people would abuse it if it were left to the competitors. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad there's a precedent. 

 

On the other hand - I'm not sure what there is to game here. Let's assume the same rules apply to the competitor as the RO - If you call a squib on yourself, knowing there isn't one, the stage would be scored as shot. If the stage is incomplete, that's literally always going to be worse than finishing the stage (even if your run wasn't good). Or am I missing something?

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Matt1911 said:

If you stop yourself, you're done. Score it and move on. 

I've had a squib before and I immediately paused because I not only heard it, but felt it too so my response was quicker than the RO. Luckily the RO, after a second of "WTF just happened" rolling around in his head finally yelled STOP once he caught on. 

The rules on it kinda suck just because the RO has to be the one to say stop when you know what happened because you could feel it, but like said above, people would abuse it if it were left to the competitors. 

The RO doesn't have to be the one to say stop, not sure what you mean here.  Also if you actually  have a squib, it is scored as shot, whether you stop yourself, or the RO stops you.  The only time you would get a reshoot is if the RO said "stop" and there was no squib, then the reshoot is for RO interference

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, matteekay said:

I'm glad there's a precedent. 

 

On the other hand - I'm not sure what there is to game here. Let's assume the same rules apply to the competitor as the RO - If you call a squib on yourself, knowing there isn't one, the stage would be scored as shot. If the stage is incomplete, that's literally always going to be worse than finishing the stage (even if your run wasn't good). Or am I missing something?

 

You're missing something. Not to be rude, just throwing out a hypothetical about what's to game. 

 

As rules read: RO suspects a squib, issues stop. If legitimate, scored as shot. If no squib, shooter receives a heartfelt apology, excuse, and prayer that the reshoot gods will be merciful. Along with a reshoot. 

 

Assuming a shooter can basically RO themselves. Mr Gamer is having a fantastic match until he fumbles a RL, pulls off a target early with questionable hits and overruns a position. Next target he fires one, then freezes. "I think I had a squib". And upon inspection, no squib and a reshoot. 

 

Just my guess at why the rule is worded so. Personally, I agree with you. Many times at locals guys are filling in as RO's and sometimes not too aware of what's going on. I've been fortunate enough to only have had one squib and by the time the RO was screaming stop, I had been done. Guns cost too much. 

 

Again not being rude, just what I consider an example. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The two posts above are correct, but just to make sure  there's no confusion....

 

If you have a squib, the stage is scored as shot. Doesn't matter if you stop yourself or the RO stops you.

 

If you stop yourself and you *don't* have a squib, the stage is scored as shot, but generally competitors are pretty sure by the time they stop themselves.

 

The only time you get a reshoot is if the RO stops you for squib or other gun safety issue and it turns out to be unfounded. in that case, you would get a reshoot. 

 

The rules are perfect just the way they are.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Part_time_redneck said:

Assuming a shooter can basically RO themselves. Mr Gamer is having a fantastic match until he fumbles a RL, pulls off a target early with questionable hits and overruns a position. Next target he fires one, then freezes. "I think I had a squib". And upon inspection, no squib and a reshoot. 

 

But that wouldn't be the case. If there was no squib, there'd be no re-shoot and the stage would be scored as shot (assuming the same rules apply to the shooter as they do an RO).

 

This isn't a hill I'm willing to die on, but I don't see why the rules couldn't allow the shooter to call a squib and have the same rules apply as they do to the RO.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

The two posts above are correct, but just to make sure  there's no confusion....

 

If you have a squib, the stage is scored as shot. Doesn't matter if you stop yourself or the RO stops you.

 

If you stop yourself and you *don't* have a squib, the stage is scored as shot, but generally competitors are pretty sure by the time they stop themselves.

 

The only time you get a reshoot is if the RO stops you for squib or other gun safety issue and it turns out to be unfounded. in that case, you would get a reshoot. 

 

The rules are perfect just the way they are.

 

No confusion about the current rules. I'm discussing a hypothetical change.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

But that wouldn't be the case. If there was no squib, there'd be no re-shoot and the stage would be scored as shot (assuming the same rules apply to the shooter as they do an RO).

 

This isn't a hill I'm willing to die on, but I don't see why the rules couldn't allow the shooter to call a squib and have the same rules apply as they do to the RO.

By what you are saying, I think you are misunderstanding the current rule

Link to post
Share on other sites
What hypothetical change are you talking about.

The same reshoot/no reshoot rule would apply if the shooter called the squib and a stop (rather than the RO).

 

Squib = Scored as shot

No Squib = Reshoot

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
By what you are saying, I think you are misunderstanding the current rule

 

Squib = Scored as shot

No Squib = Reshoot

 

But only if the RO calls "Stop". If they don't, and the competitor stops because of a suspected squib, it's scored as shot regardless. What do I have wrong?

 

(Edited because I had a brain fart typing it)

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, matteekay said:

Squib = Reshoot
No Squib = Scored as shot

But only if the RO calls "Stop". If they don't, and the competitor stops because of a suspected squib, it's scored as shot regardless. What do I have 

 

You don't get a reshoot with a squib, regardless of who stops you, that's what you are missing 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 
You don't get a reshoot with a squib, regardless of who stops you, that's what you are missing 
Typed that wrong (on my phone). Go back two posts and I wrote it correctly.
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, matteekay said:
4 minutes ago, RJH said:
 
You don't get a reshoot with a squib, regardless of who stops you, that's what you are missing 

Typed that wrong (on my phone). Go back two posts and I wrote it correctly.

Then you fall into the ,"i stopped cause i thought I had a squib and not cause i couldn't hit that steel, but as it turns out, no squib, so i get a reshoot" trap.

 

The rules are correct now

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone, please cite the rule that says that a competitor can stop themself, claiming a possible squib (or any malfunction), and get a reshoot if there isn't a squib (or other malfunction). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, teros135 said:

Anyone, please cite the rule that says that a competitor can stop themself, claiming a possible squib (or any malfunction), and get a reshoot if there isn't a squib (or other malfunction). 

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that to be the case, but it appears some people would like it to be

Link to post
Share on other sites

*ahem*

 

My bad.

 

 

 

I'm not usually this slow but I swear, October 2020 has been a month of Mondays for me. 

 

For some reason, my brain was conflating the rules when applying them to the competitor. Obviously, if the shooter can call a stop and get a reshoot when there's NO squib, it's basically a free pass to reset any stage they don't like. 

 

Yeesh.

 

Mea culpa across the board.  

 

The rules make sense as they are.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, teros135 said:

Anyone, please cite the rule that says that a competitor can stop themself, claiming a possible squib (or any malfunction), and get a reshoot if there isn't a squib (or other malfunction). 

I follow you completely but I stopped myself when I was started without hearing protection. We both missed it somehow. Reshoot

Edited by Sarge
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, teros135 said:

Anyone, please cite the rule that says that a competitor can stop themself, claiming a possible squib (or any malfunction), and get a reshoot if there isn't a squib (or other malfunction). 

 

5.4.4

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Kraj said:

If the shooter stops themselves that's it. There is no reshoot, unless it's for a reason in the rulebook. 

 

It would be hard to write a rule that couldn't be abused when you have a bad stage.

Not really hard to write a rule, .. "If competitor stops himself due to suspected squib and there IS one, reshoot. If there isnt one, no reshoot."

 

Although in general USPSA doesnt give reshoots for competitors problems. so would kinda fly in face of that and I wouldnt agree to that rule being adopted, I doubt many others would either.

Edited by Joe4d
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the goal of a shooter wanting to  make a big deal out of a squib when there may or may not be one is to trick the RO into calling stop. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...