2-stage process even for 9mm?

[matto6]

I'm new to reloading, so I am reading the Lyman reloading book while I wait for my Dillon 750 to arrive.   One of the things he makes clear is to keep lube of any form away from the steps of priming and dropping powder.  He repeats multiple times to wash your hands after touching anything involving lube.

 

Yet I see many folks recommending lube for 9mm in a progressive press.   I read things like, "Just make sure not to get too much inside the casing and you won't end up with squibs."  I can't say I'm too excited about the possibility of squibs being determined by how much, or the angle at which I spray the lube.   And then there's the issue of having to tumble loaded rounds to clean them, which most people say is fine but a lot of resources say to never do.

 

Am I crazy for wanting to make this a 2-stage process, even for 9mm?  Would I be the only person on the planet taking this precaution?  

 

Stage 1

1.  Clean brass in tumbler

2. Spray on dillon lube

3. Deprime and resize (is there that could be added to a prep tool head for 9mm?)

4. Tumble again to remove lube

 

Stage 2

1. Prime, powder, seat, crimp on the 750

 

It's an extra pass but the Stage 1 would be fairly quick because you don't need to monitor powder, primers, bullets, etc

 

Or does "spray and pray" work well enough that this is truly unnecessary?  In that case, why did I buy the Lyman book?   

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by matto6

[matto6]

I'm also wondering if I could now include a Mr Bullet Feeder,  powder check (RCBS lockout die) while keeping separate seat and crimp dies.  But I don't think that's possible because powder drop need to stay in station 2, right?

[Rnlinebacker]

I'm also wondering if I could now include a Mr Bullet Feeder,  powder check (RCBS lockout die) while keeping separate seat and crimp dies.  But I don't think that's possible because powder drop need to stay in station 2, right?

Use Hornady One Shot as it's lesser lanolin content won't be as sticky as the DCL. Lay the cases down flat and just spray on lightly and give a minute for the alcohol to dry.

 

Begin reloading progressively in 1 total step.

 

You don't need the powder check. Spray lightly the bowl of your powder measure with spray graphite. Your metering will be very consistent with most powders although the flake are so fine they may meter up or down 0.1 grain. It's pretty hard to beat a progressive loader with a case feeder and bullet feeder. Thousands of dollars to go up to automation.

 

Measure your powder throw every time before reloading to make sure nothing has changed. Also make sure your dies are tight before you start too. The threads these dies use are not that great.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

One Shot. Fifty thousand flawless rounds worth of loading on a similar machine, the 650.

 

Spray lube into small plastic bin. Dump in a hundred or so pieces of brass. Shake liberally; it only gets on the OUTSIDE of cases this way.

 

Dump it in the casefeeder.

 

Decap & size with Lee U die

Prime

flare with MBF powder funnel from DAA

bullet feeder

seat

crimp

Done.

 

Casegauge it, and shoot.

 

With hornady one shot in aerosol cans, you don’t need to get rid of tacky lanolin lube on finished rounds. With dillon lube, your loaded ammo is sticky and will collect dirt or gum up the gun. Gotta clean that worthless stuff off.

Edited October 12, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[George16]

I diluted my Dillon case lube with 91% alcohol to get rid of the stickiness of the finished rounds. I added 16 oz of alcohol with the 8 oz Dillon case lube in a bigger container and made 24 oz of it.
 

Lasts me a very long time and no need for me to tumble the finished rounds.

[GrumpyOne]

I make my own case lube, 1oz liquid lanolin to 12oz 99% alcohol. Put in a small sprayer, spray it a couple of times in a 1 gallon ziplock bag, add brass, zip up, shake, dump in tray, and load. Have never had a squib...probably close to 100k rounds.

[4n2t0]

Because there's only 5 stations you can't run a bullet feeder and powder check at the same time without combining the seat/crimp function.

 

1) Size

2) Powder drop

3) Powder check

4) Bullet feeder

5) Seat/crimp

 

When setup correctly combining the seat/crimp function (not ideal) isn't the end of the world.

[matto6]

12 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

Because there's only 5 stations you can't run a bullet feeder and powder check at the same time without combining the seat/crimp function.

 

1) Size

Right, but if sizing were done in a previous pass, is it possible to use that stage for something else?  I think the answer is no because the powder drop can't be moved earlier than stage 2.
 

[matto6]

So the consensus on lube in a progressive seems to be, "Just do it.. it turns out fine."

 

 

[bwikel]

I use dry lube spray. Spray it into a plastic coffee can then drop brass inside and hand tumble it. It dries on the brass and if it does get inside the case it will not cause powder to stick. Once loaded you can wiped off with a rag or dry tumbled off. A can will go a long way and is more economical than one shot. 

[00MGN]

NO LUBE for pistol. I use carbide progressive dies from dillon on my 1050 and 550's and have loaded 10s of thousands with no issue. Calibers loaded are 10mm, 40 cal. , 45acp, and 9mm. 

I clean and tumble all brass first. Then load them. Next case gauge, only for the 9mm and 40 cal.

[4n2t0]

2 hours ago, matto6 said:

Right, but if sizing were done in a previous pass, is it possible to use that stage for something else?  I think the answer is no because the powder drop can't be moved earlier than stage 2.
 

 

Bingo.

[Sarge]

34 minutes ago, 00MGN said:

NO LUBE for pistol. 

To each their own but lubing pistol brass has been proven effective

[Sigarmsp226]

I am another one who uses Hornady One Shot on my pistol brass loading and have for many years....And I load on a 650 - and my last name is Dillon (I kid you not)......

[nate89]

I am probably the outlier here, but I actually do process and load 9mm in two different steps.  I loaded for years on a lee pro 1000, and did that because I primed by hand.  Then I got a 650 about 6 years ago and loaded 9mm all in one pass.  For the past year or so, I have used a 1050 to process 9mm brass, then load it on my 650.  MY process is:

 

Clean brass in a cement mixer with water and let dry

Lube with one shot and run through the 1050 (decap, swage, size)

Clean in my vibratory tumbler with a bit of nu finish (have had the same bottle for years, when I run out I might try something else)

Load on the 650

Case guage and fire!

 

I get that it does take some extra time, but I am not shooting the volume of 9mm that I used to, so it really isn't a big difference for me.  The one thing I really like about processing first is I catch all the 40/380/38/etc brass, as well as all the stepped brass, steel cases, berdan primed cases during that process.  That means when I am loadign on the 650, I rarely run into any issues, and I'd like to think that it has prevented issues from cropping up while loading.  Not something I really would recommend to everyone, but it has worked well for me, and ever since I started this process my reject rate has also gone way down.

[ysrracer]

10 hours ago, matto6 said:

So the consensus on lube in a progressive seems to be, "Just do it.. it turns out fine."

 

 

 

Yes, just that simple. One shot of One Shot, then load.

[shred]

+1.  107,000 rounds on the Mark 7 and 250K+ on the old 1050 with One Shot sprayed into a plastic shoebox of brass and shaken up.  Dump into casefeeder.  Load ammo and shoot.

 

[Chills1994]

21 hours ago, matto6 said:

I'm new to reloading, so I am reading the Lyman reloading book while I wait for my Dillon 750 to arrive.   One of the things he makes clear is to keep lube of any form away from the steps of priming and dropping powder.  He repeats multiple times to wash your hands after touching anything involving lube.

 

Yet I see many folks recommending lube for 9mm in a progressive press.   I read things like, "Just make sure not to get too much inside the casing and you won't end up with squibs."  I can't say I'm too excited about the possibility of squibs being determined by how much, or the angle at which I spray the lube.   And then there's the issue of having to tumble loaded rounds to clean them, which most people say is fine but a lot of resources say to never do.

 

Am I crazy for wanting to make this a 2-stage process, even for 9mm?  Would I be the only person on the planet taking this precaution?  

 

Stage 1

1.  Clean brass in tumbler

2. Spray on dillon lube

3. Deprime and resize (is there that could be added to a prep tool head for 9mm?)

4. Tumble again to remove lube

 

Stage 2

1. Prime, powder, seat, crimp on the 750

 

It's an extra pass but the Stage 1 would be fairly quick because you don't need to monitor powder, primers, bullets, etc

 

Or does "spray and pray" work well enough that this is truly unnecessary?  In that case, why did I buy the Lyman book?   

 

 

I am using a Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler.

 

so I have one toolhead with a universal decapping die.

 

I take the dirty brass and knock out the old primers on my casefeeder equipped 650.

 

Then I wet tumble with SS pins.

I let that brass dry .

 

Then I put the load toolhead on/in my 650.

 

I do NOT use any case lube for straight wall pistol cases.

 

I am running two sizing dies in that toolhead.  In station # 1 is, I think some RCBS carbide sizing die.  Its decapping rod has been removed.

 

Station #2 has an Evolution Gun Works/Lee Undersize die (in carbide).  Its decapping rod has been removed too.

 

Station #3 is the Dillon Powder Measure with the  “Dillon Powder Measure Retrograde” operation done to it.  It has the two tension springs to get the charge bar to return back to its starting point. (Yes, you read that right:  the powder measure is at station #3.  Just google “Dillon powder measure retrograde”)

 

Station #4 is a Redding micrometer adjustable bullet seating die.  
 

Station #5 is a Lee factory crimp die.

 

I went with the two sizing die set up because with the EGW/Lee U die by itself, it was taking too much “uumph” to operate the press’s handle.  It was making my elbow hurt.

And I didn’t want to resort to spraying Hornady One Shot or homemade Dillon case lube on the brass.

 

I didn’t want to deal with the mess and/or having to tumble the lube off the loaded rounds.

 

Before the start of every reloading session I will take a WD40 or Kroil soaked Qtip and swirl it up inside the sizing dies, the bullet seating die, and the FCD.  It is amazing how much dirt and gunk I can get out of the dies.  It seems to slick them up too.

 

Then every time the primers run out or run low , and I have to stop anyway to reload the primer mechanism, I’ll do the soaked Qtip thing again.

 

just some other words of wisdom for you:

 

1.  Buy and use a case gauge

 

2.  Buy those little flip top plastic ammo boxes.... maybe just 1 or 2 one hundred round boxes at first.  
 

3.  QC/QA every one hundred rounds .  You have to stop and refill the    primers anyway.  It only holds 100 primers.  If you find an “ooops!” or an “AH!  CRAP!", you only have to pull bullets on 100 rounds instead of say 300 or 600.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kokeman]

I have loaded 10s of thousand 9mm with out lube. I got several bottles of One Shot in an estate buy out. I tried some buy throwing a few hand fulls of clean brass in a zip loc bag a a few squirts of One shot and let it dry. My God it is a lot easer. Wish I would have tried it years ago. No problems with ignition. 

[Chills1994]

On 10/11/2020 at 10:26 PM, matto6 said:

I'm also wondering if I could now include a Mr Bullet Feeder,  powder check (RCBS lockout die) while keeping separate seat and crimp dies.  But I don't think that's possible because powder drop need to stay in station 2, right?

In theory....

 

if you ran your brass through two or three different toolheads....

 

and in the last...the load pass through your 750, you could put a retrograde’ed Dillon Powder measure in Station #1, if you dumped already primed brass into the casefeeder.

 

Butttt...with all these different passes and toolheads on your 750, whatever time you think you might be saving by running a bullet feeder is going to be negated by all the trips through the press.

 

me?

 

I rely on my Mark 1 eyeball to see that there is powder in the case.

 

I also rely on my left index finger and left thumb to place bullets on top of the cases before they run up inside the seating die.

 

EDIT:  to put an even finer point on it:  NO! I am not running a powder cop die or powder check die.

 

I use an el cheapo Harbor Freight mechanic’s inspection mirror zip tied to the press/case feeder hopper support.  I normally leave station #3 open.  As the just powder charged case comes up through the #3 hole, I can see the powder in the mirror’s reflection.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Chills1994

[belus]

On 10/11/2020 at 10:26 PM, matto6 said:

But I don't think that's possible because powder drop need to stay in station 2, right?

You need to drop the powder after priming. So correct, there's no way to move the powder drop to station one.

 

On 10/12/2020 at 5:04 AM, GrumpyOne said:

I make my own case lube, 1oz liquid lanolin to 12oz 99% alcohol. Put in a small sprayer, spray it a couple of times in a 1 gallon ziplock bag, add brass, zip up, shake, dump in tray, and load. Have never had a squib...probably close to 100k rounds.

This is what I did on the 650. I loaded ~20k without lube first but it's a much nicer experience with it.

 

I now have automated 1050s and process all my brass separate from loading. Processing 9mm is just decapping and sorting because it helps me contain the primer dust. All the sizing/swaging/loading is done in one pass.

I've never used the powder check and have no interest in it.

[Stephen7942]

I usually put my cleaned cases into a ziplock and spray with Hornady One-Shot. I Shake the bag around a good bit and then dump into the case feeder. 

[Silver_Surfer]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:42 AM, 00MGN said:

NO LUBE for pistol. I use carbide progressive dies from dillon on my 1050 and 550's and have loaded 10s of thousands with no issue. Calibers loaded are 10mm, 40 cal. , 45acp, and 9mm. 

I clean and tumble all brass first. Then load them. Next case gauge, only for the 9mm and 40 cal.

I don't lube either but the guys that I know that do shoot Major 9.    

[Chutist]

I've lubed and I've gone dry... A shot in the bag doesn't hurt... but for 9mm I'm not doing it.  Why complicate it? 

[boatdoc173]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:04 AM, GrumpyOne said:

make my own case lube, 1oz liquid lanolin to 12oz 99% alcohol

 

mind if I ask what brands of lanolin and alcohol you use ?  since you have had success with your mixture--makes sense to ask this  question--thanks