CDP

[Ontarget]

This may have been discussed before, but why are many single stack 1911 guns (40S&W, 10mm)  that can meet the 165K power factor excluded from CDP Division?

If necessary, IDPA could limit capacity in these guns to 8+1.  I don't think CDP should be limited to 45acp. Thoughts or opinions on this?

[Trigger71]

+1 on this question.  I'd like to try my Colt Delta Elite in either 40SW or 10's loaded to 165+ PF.

[MHicks]

It's a division specifically based on caliber (45acp). Not a single stack division. You can shoot a 1911, Glock, S&W m&p etc. as long as it's a 45.

Edited October 8, 2020 by MHicks
44 instead of 45.

[Joe4d]

Because Bill Wilson didnt like building 40 and 10mm 1911's.

Most of the Divisions were designed around products Bill Wilson made. Or didnt make.

[MHicks]

Yes. Obviously proven by the vast majority of Wilson guns seen at every IDPA match. CDP would be single stack only if it was true.

[Joe4d]

Actually when it started 10mm was allowed, cant remember about 40, But as mentioned Wilson didnt like 10mm's . At the time the 1911 45 was falling out of favor, so there needed to be a protected division.

Also pretty sure the 4.2 bull barrel cutoff was because Wilson made a 4.15" bull barrel commander and everyone else made a 4.25,, but yeh coulda been a coincidence..  Alot of folks on here older than me and really I was young and just listening to other old guys  gripe.
The big one was the whole stability of rules guarantee,, then the 10mm thing and the revolver barrels got cut from 5 to 4"  now that upset alot of folks because the 5" 45 revolvers were popular.

Not many factory 1911's actually worked out of the box. Was pretty normal to expect to take one to the gunsmith right away. Wonder 9's were starting to show up in mass. Then bam we got the 10 round mag ban.  1911's suddenly got popular, figured if you could only have 10 rounds might as well be big. Infact  IPSC even made an exception for 1911's to use 170mm mags in Standard. Then Springfield, Kimber and others started stepping up where colt had failed for years and started putting out good 1911's

Talk to some old timers that were around and active when USPSA was spinning off its own rule book and the early years of IDPA. SOme interesting times to say the least.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Joe4d

[MHicks]

Was CDP originally singles stack only? I wasn't around at the beginning but it's always been 45 cal single or doublestack allowed since at least 2006 if I'm remembering.  I've just seen comments about IDPA rules and Wilson guns so many times but you're lucky to see more then one at a match, may be different in Arkansas. 

[rowdyb]

The apocryphal story is that R Leatham told B Wilson early on that if they allowed .40 into CDP it would dominate versus .45. So as noted, the division became one where the caliber ruled versus the gun platform ie CDP in IDPA and SS in USPSA. At the time there wasn't a ton of .45 guns that weren't 1911 style guns, so the platform was always implied but time has given us other choices.

 

When I shot CDP locally it was with a Glock 21sf or a Glock 41. When I won CDP Expert at nats it was with a STI Trojan, that a forum member now owns. I am totally fine with a caliber specific division versus a platform specific division in IDPA.

 

The intent, IDPA's favorite dirty word, was to have a legacy division for 1911's in .45. The division still is largely that, so considered a success.

Edited October 9, 2020 by rowdyb
i am a horrible typist

[belus]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

The intent, IDPA's favorite dirty word, was to have a legacy division for 1911's in .45. The division still is largely that, so considered a success.

Wasn't a large driver of introducing SS to USPSA copying IDPA's intent so there would be easy exchange between shooters? @Gary Stevens is the guy who would know, I guess. That's what I remember at least, and it's why SS started with the holster rules it did.

[Gary Stevens]

Correct.

[rowdyb]

SSP and production used to be very closely aligned as well at their earliest. Not really any more...

[Distant Thunder]

This has been a pet peeve since it was instituted. Try to find a standard factory 40 S&W load that doesn't meet power factor ... easily. It made even less sense when the 10mm was excluded. With all the folks shooting Limited in USPSA wanting to use one setup to load for their guns I can see the 40 being popular (I'd go that route myself), but quite a few people still own just one caliber of 1911 and that is 45 ACP. Granted, CDP is not exclusively limited to the 1911, as previously noted, but that single action trigger is hard to beat.